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Topic: Emmons 13 secret’s for sound |
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2018 6:19 pm |
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| Tom Wolverton wrote: |
But the big problem (I think) is there is no criteria for “good toneâ€. The outputs from a FEM model would generate a lot of data that would leave me scratching my head saying “OK, what does all of this really tell us?â€. This could be quite frustrating.
However, if you wanted to examine cabinet drop or thermal-elastic changes to the guitar’s tuning, a FEM model could do that fairly easily. |
I think you are on to something there. But you would have to analyze at least two relatively similar instruments - one with generally accepted great tone and one with generally accepted bad tone - and see what the obvious differences are. You might also compare the results of two very good sounding but dissimilar steels to see what they have in common and what is different. |
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Lonnie Portwood
From:
Jacksonville, fl. USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2018 6:38 pm
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I personally know of four guys, Bill Ferguson, Larry Bullock, Jack Daughtery, Chet Gibson, all of whom owned or own Emmons guitars and every one sounds "Heavenly"! Now, I had a red one, which was the worst playing , sounding no good guitar I ever owned, and I've owned plenty. I once heard Ed Fulawka say that the neck of a steel guitar had nothing to do with tone, or sustain. I also owned a S 10 Emmons once which played and sounded wonderful, it had Buddy's signature underneath.
If you were to go to any major guitar mfg. company, pick thru 50 guitars hanging on the rack, built and handled by the same techs, you might find two, three, maybe four that were "special". You knew the minute you laid hands on it.
Same is true with steel guitars,people, cars, etc. No two pieces of wood are alike, even if they came from the same tree.
Harold Flynn, who worked for Shot Jackson back in the day, told me that Shot would "tune His steel bodies, and even His amps. If the piece didn't resonate, He might take a little material off, here or there, til He got it like He wanted. Just sayin! LP
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Music is probably the most "spiritual of mankinds emotions, and when practised with a pure heart, can lead one into the presence of God, who invented it. Lonnie Portwood |
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George Seymour
From:
Notown, Vermont, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2018 4:56 am
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On this subject...what would Buddy Emmons do? From first hand recollection he would simply rake across either or both necks unamplified and would be able to tell how good the guitar would respond tone wise..like one mantra says everything matters...not every prewar flathead was magical..oh but those that were...deep in the well for old Emmons D-10. Not all are created equal..but the arrow and the Indian is also pretty applicable
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Old Emmons D-10's & Wrap Resound 65, Standel amps!
Old Gibson Mastertones |
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 29 Jun 2018 6:49 am
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| I would think Buddy Emmons knew on a deeper level what made a great sounding steel because he had to have known the confidential processes used to build Emmons guitars... Maybe not, I don't know. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2018 7:26 am
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I understand that Buddy would rake the strings and then grab a leg. If he could feel the vibrations of the strings in the leg, it was a good one.
Erv |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 29 Jun 2018 9:23 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
I understand that Buddy would rake the strings and then grab a leg. If he could feel the vibrations of the strings in the leg, it was a good one.
Erv |
Others claim that if you can feel the vibrations in the legs, energy is being transferred to the floor.
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 29 Jun 2018 5:04 pm
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| Lee Baucum wrote: |
| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
I understand that Buddy would rake the strings and then grab a leg. If he could feel the vibrations of the strings in the leg, it was a good one.
Erv |
Others claim that if you can feel the vibrations in the legs, energy is being transferred to the floor.
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Not to worry … "transfer" doesn't mean "loss" in this context.
With enough energy charged in a heavy PSG body, transfer of vibrations through to the floor indicates the build-up of sub-harmonics. Build-up of strong sub-harmonics tend to cause what is known as "blooming" – kick-back from delayed sympathetic vibrations, a desirable effect that results in warmer tone and increased sustain. |
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Al Evans
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2018 4:48 am
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| Georg Sørtun wrote: |
With enough energy charged in a heavy PSG body, transfer of vibrations through to the floor indicates the build-up of sub-harmonics. Build-up of strong sub-harmonics tend to cause what is known as "blooming" – kick-back from delayed sympathetic vibrations, a desirable effect that results in warmer tone and increased sustain. |
So you add a good contact pickup to the floor, and... 
--Al Evans
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2018 MSA Legend, 2018 ZumSteel Encore, 2015 Mullen G2, G&L S-500, G&L ASAT, G&L LB-100, Godin A4 Fretless, Kinscherff High Noon |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 30 Jun 2018 5:53 am
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So does anybody know one of Emmons' secrets of sound?
Anything to do with a horseshoe ring or other conspiracies?
I would however like to hear Ross Shafer on the subject.
I hope he reveals that the neck has nothing to do with it. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 30 Jun 2018 7:39 am
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| Al Evans wrote: |
| So you add a good contact pickup to the floor, and... |
… what goes down will come up again, so no need for that
OTOH, I have had some luck with attaching contact PUs on my modified Dekley w/ floating neck. Didn't care for the mixer needed to balance the levels with the regular PU, but boy did it bloom.
That same PSG literally "thunders" through to the floor, and beats all PSGs I over the years have had the chance to compare it with when it comes to sustain. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 30 Jun 2018 12:54 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| Where did you attach the contact PUs, Georg? |
At various points along the edge of the floating neck – mainly from fret 12 down to nut, and on the soundboard near/inside the keyhead.
Note that as bridge/changer/PU on this particular PSG is not in contact with the soundboard/body – carried entirely by the neck that floats free of the soundboard down to fret 12…
… most of how vibrations spread within it is irrelevant for traditionally designed PSGs where vibrations spread directly from the bridge to the body. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2018 2:18 pm
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I’ve heard that everything done to the Emmons push pull was done with tone in mind. The little wire hooks keep the guitar resonating around pickup and not being dampened into the cross bars by rods. The cut out for the tone control and neck switch was done that way for a reason to make tone better.
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Greg Lambert
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2018 2:49 pm
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I have seen Jeff Newman play different steels and they all sounded marvelous. So , the guitar plays a little in the sound quality but the player plays a greater part in this.
IMHO |
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Marco Schouten
From:
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Posted 1 Jul 2018 3:14 am
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I think a large part has to do with the amount of aluminium in the changer fingers. They were pretty massive and solid compared to the thin scissors of the all-pull guitars.
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JCH SD-10 with BL XR-16 pickup, Sho-Bud Volume Pedal, Evidence Audio Lyric HG cables, Quilter Steelaire combo |
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Louis Falardeau
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2018 5:33 am
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I have always thought the changer made the biggest difference. I am sure Ron tried to keep all the other factors that affect the sound the same as much as possible when he made the La Grande. But my
La Grande was good tonewise but not as good as my push pulls. It would be interesting to hear from someone who had a push pull conversion. Also I believe pull release guitars have a better sound than all pull guitars generally due to the mass in the changer finger. All pull guitars seem to all have thin scissor fingers. |
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Tim Herman
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 1 Jul 2018 5:46 am
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| I am far from an expert, but lately, as I begin to play more in tune, I am noticing a better tone as a result. Just as an experiment, I tried tuning just a little sour, and my sustain decreased. I think that sweet harmonies want to "bloom", and dissonant sounds tend to choke. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 1 Jul 2018 7:56 am
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When the steel is in tune, and the band is in tune, the tone of the steel miraculously gets better. That's been my experience
When your steel just doesn't sound like it should, check your tuning first. Don't start turning knobs on the amp until you're sure the steel is in tune.
Apologies in advance for the topic drift.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Tim Herman
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 1 Jul 2018 8:13 am
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| Paul, I suppose you are right about the topic drift, but at least one of the 13 secrets must be tuning. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 1 Jul 2018 8:16 am
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| I think one of the secrets is the label. I took the badge off mine one time and the tone just wasn't the same, so I screwed it back on. |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 6 Jul 2018 11:17 am
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I think the 13 secrets might be this?
2 thumbs
8 fingers
1 guitar
1 amp
1 volume pedal
=13
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A.K.A Chappy. |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2018 5:51 pm
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| Larry you win the door prize almost. But a Emmons dose have a sound of its own good bad or ugly. I’ll vote good! |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2018 6:00 pm
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| George how did you come up with the floating necki plus changer attached to neck only? Would love to here a sample sound. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2019 1:45 pm
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i wonder if using wood like this with big knots running through the soundboard helps or hurts tone? soundboards are usually defect free quarter sawn boards. maybe it doesn't matter because the neck is the "soundboard."
Last edited by Gary Spaeth on 7 Jan 2019 5:23 am; edited 2 times in total |
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