What to do w/C pedal if you don't use it?

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

100% of my pedal playing is on dinky originals that I fart around with, so I don't need it to play the hot licks in popular songs. I haven't found any real need for it in my music, other than the occassional 4th string raise while hitting the high F# -- which is almost worth it. My old Sho Bud has the E raise and lower knee levers. What would you guys and gals do with your C pedal (or tell me what you've already done) if you didn't use it to raise the B & E?

Al

Rick Nicklas · From: Verona, Mo. (deceased)

I'm glad John Hughey never said this or I would not have had half the fun using the "C" pedal. I don't use it all the time but it sure is nice with any combination of the 4,5 & 6 strings for just about any style of songs that I have played. You probably should get some tab and find out what your missing and experiment with it more. Most of the B/C pedal licks that I have heard and play are all within 3 frets and can give you some very interesting directions when you find the spots to put them.... but again, just get some tab or find another steeler for direction here.

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

Hi Rick,

I know what you're talking about, but I can get this by using the a/b pedals and reaching up and picking the f#...without the C pedal.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I would be absolutely crippled without the C pedal. I use it all the time for harmoney scale patterns, and it's especially useful for playing rock licks where you turn on the distortion and play the 1st and 4th strings in unison and hit the pedal just after you pick the strings.

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

I added one more pull to the C pedal.

String 8---E to F#

At first glance it might seem a bit redundant, and the extra pull does stiffen the action a little, but now I probably use the C pedal 75% more than I use to!

I got the idea from looking at PF's setup.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I finally got used to pedal C for doing
minor II and Minor 6 chords from I and V positions.

But If I were to lose it I would opt for lowering of G#'s to G and D# to D.
This is like a Uni, though on my Bud I use it on a lever.

Especially cool, if you have a Bb lever to get minors on AB down position.

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

You better study that pedal a little bit more, I would quit steel guitar without it!

Ernie

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Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Hey Al!!... I say keep the pedal as is,and learn to use it more... work some stuff out with it,, IMHO,its a VERY valuable change and I use it constantly in all my playing from blues to straight C&W.... I'd rather drink Drano than play without it!

bob

[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 18 September 2005 at 05:25 AM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Lower 5&6 a full tone.

or

lower 1&2 a full tone.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

C pedal is the beginner's friend.
I wish I had two C's, one right next to the A, so I could rock that way too.

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Press the B&C pedal and you havce 6 strings in C6 tunning, steel guitar stomp, 345 and then 456 and you can play little coqueite, not spelled right but a nice pop song we did years ago at dances back then we retuned from A's tunnings or e's tunning to C# minor to play certain songs.

Edit to say this I bought a guitar that did not have the C pedal it is now in the shop to add this C pedal it is that important to me.

ernie

[This message was edited by Ernest Cawby on 18 September 2005 at 06:52 AM.]

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

I appreciate everybody's love for the C pedal (and for those who have given me things to do with the C pedal if I change it), but I'd like to know what it is you can do with the C pedal you can't do by using your high F# string (besides the double F# by hitting the four and one strings). Can't you get the same harmony scales by just reaching up and picking your F# instead of raising your 4/E?

[This message was edited by Al Terhune on 18 September 2005 at 07:50 AM.]

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Al.. yes .. of course the NOTE is there, but its the feel and expressionb that you would lose... It may work well for what you are doing.. you are NOT alone.. I see a LOT of guys saying they rarely use the C pedal... I guess could lower your 6th string a full tone.. I do this on my 5th pedal..

OR a very nice change would be to RAISE your 1st string a full tone and your 2nd string a half tone.. this is a NICE change that is getting more common... I have used it for about 28 years myself, but only the last few years is it getting popular... bob

Steve Dodson · From: Sparta, Tennessee, USA

AL, All of the above is very good advice. But if you listen to any of Lloyd Greens work, you will here him using the B&C pedal combo a lot. Thought I would mention this to give you an ideal of the nice sounds,that everyone above are explaining to you. Hal Rugg and Weldon Myrick are two more that come to mind when thinking about the B&C pedals and well as a lot of pro's.

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

Bob -- you're right. You do lose that pedal expression by simply picking the F#. I like the idea of rasing the F# a whole and the D# a half. This is the same configuration the 4 and 5 strings (using pedal and lever on and off where appropiate) give you, just at lower frets, but the tone/timbre is different on the 1 and 2 strings, which I like. I'm going to look at all of these suggestions and see what they would mean to me, and whether it's something a bar slant wouldn't compensate for (which I've really been using a ton of, since most of my prior six years has been on lap steel; I've just renewed my interest in the pedal, which I learned first about eight years ago).

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

B+C with the second string lowered to D gives you 1st inversion of a major chord on strings 2,3,4. This is very handy, and it's the base position for countless country licks. It gives you a C chord at the D (10th) fret.

Here's a simple example of a lick on a C chord:

1 _______________________________________________


2 ___________________10D_________________________


3 ___10B___________________10B------___8B----8___


4 __________10C--10________10----10C___8C----8___


5 _______________________________________________

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Buck Grantham R.I.P. · From: Denham Springs, LA. USA

Leave the C pedal on the guitar. And study on what it does ,then you will be using it a lot.

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

Bobby,

I only had a few minutes this morning before I left for work, but I found all of that lick, and much simpler to do, up on the 15th fret -- minus the last part that you did on the 8th fret (and it still might be up there somewhere) -- and, yes, that's a very common lick. I'm not trying to be contrary, and there have to be some instances where using that C pedal can't be replicated elsewhere, but I'm just trying to get the best bang for the buck. If it is keeping the E to F#, so be it, but I haven't found that use for myself yet. As some have gently pointed out, that could just be my ignorance and probably is. I'm sure I'll see the light, but there are a couple of ways of getting that F# without the pedal (1st string, and E knee lever raise/slant a fret) and I'd like to try to find a use for that pedal that gives me something not as easily obtainable. Stubborn? It's proven me a fool before and maybe next week I'll confess my intimate relationship with the E to F# (and B to C#) C pedal after I've learned that pedal.

Al

Rick Nicklas · From: Verona, Mo. (deceased)

It's sort of like when they took Moe, Larry and Curley Jo..... and replaced Curley Jo with Shimp... It was still good but not ever the same belly laughs you got with those three together. .. Wooo Wooo Wooo...ngeh ngeh ngeh.

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Al, I don't use the C pedal but I play a S-12 with 8 pedals. Do you have a double neck? If so, I'd go ahead and keep the C pedal for convenience and the great sounds that go with it. Some things I used to do with the C pedal, I now do by starting with the E's lowered and using the A pedal with the 5th string as the root instead of the 4th. I have the Tom Brumley change on pedal 1 which is raising the 7th string F# to G#. some lower 3 & 6 to G and that's a great change too. I also tune my 2nd string to C# and when I need a II minor I can just use the B pedal and grab string 1,2, & 3.....JH in Va.

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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

You could change your first 3 pedals to G#'s lower to G's, A-Pedal, B-pedal.
You could put string 4 E>F# on the knee lever that lowers your 2nd string (or some other knee) if you want to keep that part of the C pedal.

Steve Dodson · From: Sparta, Tennessee, USA

Guys I'm not trying to sound like a know it all, but unless it is Al's person choice not to have that pedal.I don't understand why he doesn't keep it. Its been part of the standard tuning, since all the pedals got invented. And to me helps make playing the E9th a lot easier to play. I don't understand how it could Not be part of his E9th set-up. I mean Lloyd,Buddy,Weldon ,Paul ,JayDee,Sonny ,Bobbeand especially John Hughey, oh my if John had left that pedal out of his tuning nobody might not of ever heard of him.

[This message was edited by Steve Dodson on 19 September 2005 at 09:40 AM.]

[This message was edited by Steve Dodson on 19 September 2005 at 09:41 AM.]

Brian Henry · Posted 19 Sep 2005 9:39 am

Is it true that Buddy Emmons never uses the C peedal?

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I would agree that the C pedal is important if you're trying to sound like another player, famous or otherwise.
The other side of the coin would be to make it mechanically impossible to sound like another player.
This may be a very interesting pursuit for some.

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

I agree with the proposition to put the e-f# on a knee, preferable - on the same knee-side as your E-Eb lower. You can do a 1-2-1-7-1 lick just by swinging your knee over and back. I use it more without the A pedal - but it can be used with the A for a more traditional parallel raise as per C-pedal.

This is how I have it - and not only use the E-F# LOTS, probably more than E-Eb, but believe it simplifies the playing of the instrument, because you can leave your foot overtop of A&B and at no sacrifice. I know - I'm lazy. A 5x5 copedant is still more than enough for me.

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