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Topic: Gold Standard Pickup, from Telonics |
John A. Russell
From:
Norfolk, UK
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Posted 19 Mar 2018 2:16 pm |
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Perfect Pickup
I have just had, (what I thought, was the perfect pickup), the 705 chrome surround, replaced with a pickup that is so new, it doesn't appear on Telonics own website. The X10
Using my Franklin S10, I could not use any "Middle" or "Treble" on my amplifier. This caused a problem with my sound, as the two tones are most important.
I had the engineed record the guitar, before and after the replacement. The different was astounding. Adding the missing Middle and Treble EQs has given my S10 a monster sound. I ordered this pup, months ago. It has proved worth the wait.
I am astounded at the obsession with quality, that Dave Beaty and the Telonics team have, which bursts through on all their products.
John A. Russell (UK)
_________________
Franklin S10, Telonics X10 pup, Telonics Volume Pedal, Telonics 500 Combo Amp, with Mike Johnson Tone, BJS Bar. Vox AC15C2, Fender Stratocaster, Music Man Albert Lee. Brent Mason Nashville Telecaster. Fender 65 Deluxe Reverb Amplifier.Cali76 Studio Compressor, Boss DM3 Delay. Hall & Collens Signature Echo unit. |
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Jack Stanton
From:
Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey
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Posted 20 Mar 2018 3:45 pm
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| Tell us more, Mr. Beaty... |
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Dave Beaty
From:
Mesa, Arizona, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2018 12:41 pm Here goes....
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OK Jack, I’ll try - here goes.
Yes it is very new. Although we have been working with it (and other new designs) for over a year, it was just recently released in limited numbers within the last few months and we have not publicized it. Frankly, the X10 is difficult to manufacture. Like most of our products, it is made as a service to solve specific problems and we have no desire to make them in large production.
It is similar in appearance to the Type 84PW shown in the attached photo of some early designs; it has 10 pair of magnetic poles to allow volume balance and tonal color adjustment of each individual string. We have not developed an equivalent design for 12 string guitars.
About two years ago we began working on a design to further enhance the balance of the high and low frequency response on exceptionally resonant guitars, whilst preserving an almost intangible quality of individual strings which I fail to be able to describe adequately (but is sorely missed when trying to achieve that last 5-10% of tonal quality).
In that light, we designed about eight pickups including a new eXperimental -10 string design down to the Texas show in Dallas last year (2017) and conducted a blind test with a room full of some of the best steel players at the show. They all picked this new "X-10" design - not by much, but enough that they all selected the same pickup. (We're talking about these certain very minute tonal distinctions at this point.)
During the last year, we had a number of players and builders try the X10PW and they all agreed that it was "the" one for their tastes - on highly resonant guitars. Not absolutely 100% everything we have ever dreamed of, but the closest we have been able to come to “it†to date and closer to "it" than any other pickup we have ever seen.
So, it is clearly a case of matching a given guitar design to the proper pickup to solve problems with the unique characteristics of a given guitar design. To date, the X10PW has been selected for use on high-end push-pulls, Infinity mica body guitars, Zum guitars with hybrid tuners, Franklin guitars, recent model MSA’s and a number of other guitars which exhibit exceptional resonance characteristics.
In general, if your guitar is highly resonant like those mentioned, the X10PW is probably the humbucking pickup of choice - otherwise, I would suggest the 409PW for the E9th neck. If your guitar is an older, heavy design with reduced resonance characteristics, the 409PW generally brings new life to it. If you have a guitar with very low resonance, the type 84PW has often proven effective in giving new life to the E9th neck of such instruments (including some early GFI and Fabian-era Carter guitars (not to be confused with the early Bud Carter high quality guitars). |
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Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
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Posted 22 Mar 2018 2:26 pm Psg
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| I use a 206 in a Rains guitar. I replaced a 10-1 with it. Major improvement. Just curious what ohms the 206 has. Thanks. |
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Dave Beaty
From:
Mesa, Arizona, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2018 2:40 pm Resistance readings with Telonics pickups
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Billy,
Using the DC resistance of a single-coil pickup has always been one way to approximate something about the sound quality you might expect to hear - in general.
However, we (like Bill Lawrence) are unable to use resistance as a measure of sound characteristics for the types of hum-bucking pickups we build. In fact, some designs will measure zero resistance and in the case of ones that do have a DC resistance component, it has no bearing on how the pickup will sound.
We measure a long list of engineering terms which, coupled all together, tell us a great deal about the predicted tonal qualities, but resistance is unfortunately, not a usable factor.
By the way, the 10-1 is a good choice and sits well in the ear of many people for many types of guitars. I think you made a good choice. |
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Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
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Posted 22 Mar 2018 3:03 pm Psg
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| Thanks for the quick response. The 206 is probably the best pu I've ever used. I'll be following info on the X-10, as it becomes available also. Thanks again buddy. |
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Jack Stanton
From:
Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey
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Posted 22 Mar 2018 5:14 pm
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| Thank for the update, Dave. So basically you're saying I can't have it, which of course means I want it!! |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 24 Mar 2018 1:54 am
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A few years ago Dave sent me a 206 to replace my Lawrence XLR 16 that was damaged in shipping my guitar,and it's my favorite,in fact I have them in a few guitars...my friends call it the "Seattle"because 206 is also the Seattle are code.
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Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Kevin Quick
From:
Sacramento
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Posted 1 May 2018 10:43 am
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| Just ordered the X10 for GFI e9 neck per Dave's recommendation. Will let yall now how it is once installed |
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Ron Hogan
From:
Nashville, TN, usa
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Posted 2 May 2018 5:44 am
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Dave,
How do you judge or measure resonance of guitars?
The ear of the beholder can be very varied.
Ron |
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John A. Russell
From:
Norfolk, UK
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Posted 2 May 2018 6:19 am Pup
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My Experiences.
After trying various guitar amps and pickups, both on
PSGs and Guitars. I found that the Pup is the very listening ear of the guitar and any imperfections in this component, makes or breaks the tone.
My Franklin came with the old Chrome surround 705, which every who heard it loved.
In my continued search for "Tone", I tried the X10, which proved superior. In my experience, of owning guitars, I found My Mullen a "Middle" tone type guitar and my "Rains" a toppy type guitar.
As Dave Beaty has already explained. Each PSG is different and I took Dave's advice on buying the X10 pickup, after explaining the guitar I had.
For me, the difference was amazing!
So if in doubt, check with the maker of the Pup you buy.
J.R.
_________________
Franklin S10, Telonics X10 pup, Telonics Volume Pedal, Telonics 500 Combo Amp, with Mike Johnson Tone, BJS Bar. Vox AC15C2, Fender Stratocaster, Music Man Albert Lee. Brent Mason Nashville Telecaster. Fender 65 Deluxe Reverb Amplifier.Cali76 Studio Compressor, Boss DM3 Delay. Hall & Collens Signature Echo unit. |
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Tommy Dodd
From:
Acworth, Ga., USA (deceased)
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Posted 3 May 2018 9:50 am
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Well, I too am a happy camper using the X10. I've had it on my Infinity D10 for almost 5 months. Before that, I had the 409 on my guitar and was very satisfied with it too. But the X10 gives me more control over individual string intensity and tone. With that I can counter my right hand deficiencies and have a more balanced tone overall.
One thing is for sure... Dave, and the folks at Telonics, are always looking for the best solutions for the steel guitar. Will they ever be satisfied? Probably not! But, that's a good thing for us all. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 7 May 2018 8:57 am
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| Tommy Dodd wrote: |
| With that I can counter my right hand deficiencies and have a more balanced tone overall. |
I wouldn't mind having your "right hand deficiencies" at all, Tommy! 
I'm using a Type 84 in my Ross Shafer Sierra and I'm very happy with it. Being able to adjust the tonal balance of each string is a big plus. I get a lot of compliments from other musicians on the tone of this guitar.
I'm also using a Telonics volume pedal and speaker. Dave Beaty is at the leading edge of electronic engineering for steel guitars, in my opinion.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jay Jessup
From:
Charlottesville, VA, USA
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Posted 16 May 2018 3:46 am
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| Ron Hogan wrote: |
Dave,
How do you judge or measure resonance of guitars?
The ear of the beholder can be very varied.
Ron |
I too would be interested in the answer to this question. I recall seeing Bruce Zumsteg and a few others strum across ten strings and then grabbing a guitars leg and making a few comments but that would imply the need for years of experience with many guitars to properly judge. I also have to think it has to involve a little more than how heavy a guitar is.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? |
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Dave Campbell
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 18 May 2018 1:42 am
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my two hole puller ldg is a great sounding but not extremely resonant guitar. i had a 206 in there, which sounded great if a tiny bit too warm, and now i have a 409 in there which is perfect.
a few months ago i bought a d10 emmons push pull (with true tones). it is extremely resonant, as i can feel the strings vibrate through the pedals and even through the bar mounted volume pedal. a friend recommended the x10, which should be here any day (maybe today!). from my experience with telonics pickups, i don't think i'll be disappointed. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 18 May 2018 7:38 am
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| Ron Hogan wrote: |
Dave,
How do you judge or measure resonance of guitars?
The ear of the beholder can be very varied.
Ron |
| Jay Jessup wrote: |
I too would be interested in the answer to this question. I recall seeing Bruce Zumsteg and a few others strum across ten strings and then grabbing a guitars leg and making a few comments but that would imply the need for years of experience with many guitars to properly judge. I also have to think it has to involve a little more than how heavy a guitar is.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? |
That would not work with the new Sierra design. Almost all of the resonance is contained in top deck deck, which only makes contact with the frame at the 4 corners. And besides, the "grab a leg" method only tells you the length of sustain, not what frequencies are resonating.
The frequencies and sustain of a guitar can both be measured by recording it and analyzing the waveform with computer software. Even Audacity, which is free, can give you a pretty good picture of what is happening.
The trick in accurately comparing guitars is controlling how the strings are picked. It's hard to get the same attack velocity twice from human hands. You'd need a robot. But you can still get a general picture of a guitar's resonance and sustain characteristics with software, and that picture is very useful in guitar and pickup design.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Kevin Quick
From:
Sacramento
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Posted 25 May 2018 8:12 am Update
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| Installed X10 on my GFI ultra e9 neck, installed an eminence TT 15 in the Evans 500, all while waiting for an amp rehab by Derrell Stephens. Shoulda done this a step at a time to note the difference in each component but didn't have the patients for that. So all I can say is that this combination is the bomb! Finally getting the sound I was after. |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 25 May 2018 9:22 am
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I ordered my New MSA S-10 with a 409 pup, and liked its warmth, but thought it was a tad heavier on the bottom than what I wanted... so I ordered the X10 and have to say, it just feels more balanced across the tonal spectrum... without playing with the poles, it seems a little brighter on the bottom and a little mellower on the top and a little cleaner and clearer overall... I don’t know if I’m describing it with the proper terminology, but this is my take ... One peculiarity with both this and the 409 is that on the MSA you can’t really adjust the poles down as they’re already as low as they can go with the Modular pickup design... You won’t be able to slide the pickup back out, and could damage the plate it sits on... so your adjustment if you do any has to be up... Personally I think the pup sounds great straight off the shelf, which is good, cause I don’t know how anxious I am to fool around with the poles.
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
https://www.youtube.com/@steelinatune
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com |
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Mitchell Smithey
From:
Dallas, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2018 5:27 pm
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| I have been using the X-10 in my newest MSA and am really impressed. It has become my primary choice for most of my jobs. Really nice work from the folks at Telonics! |
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Scott Jenkins
From:
Fort Worth, Cowtown,Texas, USA
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Posted 18 Mar 2022 12:05 pm Telonis 206 in aRains guitar
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| five years ago i was looking for a replacement pickup for my Rains guitar. I called Telonics and talked to Dave for along time and after that conversation i ordered 206-PWs. The best decision I could've made. I just installed 206's in my second Rains recently and they sound great. I don't know the difference between the 206's and the X10 but I'll always use Telonics. When Peavy couldn't get replacement baskets for their speakers, I went to a Telonics speaker for my Nashville. Another great upgrade. |
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 18 Mar 2022 9:06 pm
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I have two U-12 maple body MSA's. 1975 and 1976. Identical guitars in structure. One with a 427 Telonics and the other X12. Each different in tone, but both excellent. I would describe the 427 pristine ShoBud tone. The X12 Emmons tone. I've tried George L and Truetone in one of my guitars, but the Telonics is the winner.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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