LG111 problem...

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

In the last couple of weeks I've found that both of my LKL adjusters are slipping out of tune. Mine is a 'Day' set-up, therefore this is the E-D# lower on strings 4 and 8.

I'm playing a nightly 'Patsy' show, and I find I'm having to increase the 'lower' on both hex-tuners before each show. It slips a little during the show (the 8th string worse than the 4th), so it's a slight inconvenience, and certainly unprecedented in my experience with this instrument. My guitar (a 2000 D10) has always been extremely stable.

Does anyone know what might be wrong? The tuners themselves are turning very easily (maybe too easily?), and there's no apparent stress when I return them to the correct amount of 'lower'.

To be absolutely clear, they're slipping so that the strings won't lower quite sufficiently - the 8th string 'lower' slips until it's only dropping the string a quarter-tone! The 4th string doesn't slip quite so drastically.

Thanks for any help you may be able to give...

'Frustrated in Sarasota'
(RR)

Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

Roger, it seems unlikely that two bellcranks on the same lever would be cracked but I suggest you examine the bellcranks next to the crossrod for a crack.
These parts sometimes are weakened by a crack and will gradually give way when the pull is applied.
Jerry

Ernie Renn · From: Brainerd, Minnesota USA

Roger;

First I'd tighten the stop to make sure that it hasn't loosened slightly. Then if the problem is still there, I'd replace the bell cranks. It's hard to tell sometimes if they're cracked or not, so replacing them is best. Good luck finding the problem!

------------------
My best,
Ernie

www.buddyemmons.com

Phil ONeill · From: Balbriggan, Dublin, Ireland

Hi Roger,
I have an LG111 and had a similar problem on the 2nd string lower.The bellcrank tore away from the sleeve.The more I adjusted the hex tuner the more it tore.I replaced the 14 hole bellcrank as soon as I found the problem and it was solved.More recently my 4th string lower was not returning to tune when released.Light oil applied to the bridge roller solved this.Let us know how it works out.Good Luck... Phil

Johnny Harris · From: Texas, USA

Roger, you stated that the tuners turn very easily. It sounds like the threads may be wearing out in the tuners themselves, letting them slip. If they haven't already been reversed, you might try taking them off and thread the other end of them on to the rod, thus having new threads.

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

Roger have you checked the driver bell crank? The Bell crank that moves the shaft.

Charles Dempsey · From: Shongaloo, LA

My LeGrande 3 tuners have always turned with a good bit of effort. Yours could be stripped.

Charlie

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Thanks for all the suggestions, you guys!

Ridiculous as it may seem, I haven't yet flipped the guitar over to see if there's an obvious problem. I doubt, though, that I'd have thought of examining the bell-cranks for cracking, but I will as soon as I get back into the theatre on Tuesday.

I suppose that LKL (Es to D#) does get a bit more of a hammering than the others, so it's certainly a possibility. When I used to break those awful Sho-Bud pot-metal 'elbows' on my Pro 111, it was always the LKL that would break.

Anyway, I'll be looking at all your suggestions and I'll let you know what occurs - as always, you guys are terrific!

Roger R.

Jeff Agnew · From: Dallas, TX

I had the same problem while lowering 4 & 8. As others mentioned, the bell crank had cracked and was bending. And yes, it did affect tuning on both strings even though only one bell crank was failing.

Sounds like Emmons either got a bad run of bell cranks or they're all weak and the stress just shows up on the most used changes.

Greg Vincent · From: Folsom, CA USA

Are the LeGrande II & III bell cranks weakened because they have those 14 holes in them? Does this cracking occur in the old 4-hole bell cranks? -GV

Willis Vanderberg · From: Petoskey Mi

Hi Roger:
If you can drop by we will take a look.
I can come up with a couple of bell cranks, if that is the problem.Let me know.
I also have some long nylon tuning nuts...

Bud

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Thanks, Bud - check your e-mail, please.

Guys, once Bud's cast his engineer's eye over the problem, I'll post a full report. The more I think about it, the more sense a failing bell-crank seems to make.

I don't have a show 'til Wednesday now (tonight's cancelled), so it won't be until after that.

Thanks again for all your help.

RR

[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 23 August 2005 at 11:26 AM.]

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