Blues, Rockabilly, Rock & Roll on Pedal Steel?

Karlis Abolins · From: (near) Seattle, WA, USA

I have been moving towards the Blues for a long time. In listening to the early rock and roll, I find a lot of blues influences. I hear them as well in the Sacred Steel style. For those of you that play in these genres, what techniques do you use the most? Do you stick to single string picking in the style of Clapton and others or do you venture out and add harmony scales with pedals?
Karlis

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Forget the pedal mashing and whiny glissandos. That style is peculiar to the country sound. Use slide guitar or blues guitar tones. Emulate a guitar. The unique voice of the pedal steel works in ALL styles of music if the player plays the music and leaves the country cliches to the country music.

I personally feel that a 12-string steel -- either Ext E9 or U-12 -- is particularly well suited to rock and rockabilly. I have played in several bands that do roots rock, rockabilly, and blues. Whenever the guitarist (assuming there is just one guitar plus steel) drops out of the rhythm mode on the lower strings, it leaves a big hole. A little Chuck Berry, low voiced rhythm fills that hole.

Listen to Greg Leisz, Bruce Kaphan, Fats Kaplan, and other players who transcend the country / western stereotype. Sneaky Pete is another great player to steal ideas from.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

David Doggett · Posted 15 Aug 2005 12:31 pm

I play in one rockabilly band, a related country-rock/alt country band, and one blues band. I do it all with an S12U. For rockabilly, I discovered that the B6 mode of the uni works great, especially played like a lap steel, with no pedals, except extensive use of the lever that lowers my middle E to D (pedal 6 on C6) and gives me a IV7 chord. The I6, IV7, V7 progression is the rockabilly sound.

When the sound ventures into more traditional country, I have the standard E9 mode of my uni for all the pedal mashin' you want.

For blues, I mostly lay off the pedals. I use a grooved bar (Shubb-Pearce #2) for fast single-string stuff, and pick or strum low power chords for rhythm. I use pedals or knees to give me flatted 7ths, 5ths and 3rds, for pentatonic runs and chords. I especially like the A-pedal-down minor key pocket for R&B. You get a root on the lowest string for great power chords. And it gives you good blues, jazz and fusion runs and melodies at the tonic minor fret, without moving the bar. If you drop back one fret and hit the A and B pedals, you have the V, which can become V7 with my LKV. From the A-pedal-minor pocket, you can hit the BC pedals and get the IIm. Release all the pedals and you modulate to the relative major. There are just so many useful chords right there withing a fret or two of that pocket. A song like "The Thrill is Gone" really works well in that pocket, also many of Robert Cray's beautiful minor blues. If things move to the jazzier chords, like on a song like Stormy Monday, you can go into the B6 mode and get all the movable jazz chords you want.

All the blues pentatonic stuff works for most rock, and for blues driven rockabilly.

I haven't gotten up to speed yet on swing or bebop jazz in B6 mode. But combining E9 and B6 works really well for traditional jazz ballads like My Funny Valentine. I start it in B6 mode, but switch to E9 for some straight majors and minors and even some diminished and augmenteds with the F lever. The uni tuning is huge.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 15 August 2005 at 01:36 PM.]

Karlis Abolins · From: (near) Seattle, WA, USA

Do you find yourself emulating other guitarists or do you do your own thing? Or does that depend on the song?

Karlis

David Doggett · Posted 15 Aug 2005 8:41 pm

Well, yes, I certainly try at times to emulate great blues guitarists like B.B. King, Elmore James, and more recently, Robert Cray. But I seem to get the best results when I don't think of any guitarist in particular, but just try for good blues phrasing with feeling. I also play blues on sax, acoustic guitar with finger picks, resonator (round neck and square neck), and keyboards. While each instrument has certain characteristic licks that come easier, they all seem at their best when you can transcend the particular instrument and play like you are singing, with feeling. In his autobiography, B.B. King said he developed his singing vibrato style trying to sound like a steel guitar! Nothing can sing like a steel guitar. I think it is the greatest underdeveloped blues instrument. Robert Randolph and Chuck Campbell have shown what can be done on steel, although I prefer a dirtier kind of blues than they play. Learning licks from the masters is a good start, and great for your technique (and I wish I had time to do more of it), but to really play blues that grabs listeners, you have to get beyond that and make the instrument sing from your heart. That's what I'm trying to do. Blues is not technical music, it is emotional music.

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

I prefer to play classic country but I do sometimes play blues and R & R. I like to play C6th on a lot of the blues stuff, it tends to make it easy to really go out on a limb, as in playing fast single note runs and then work back to the root note or chord the song is in. I don't really care to play slide guitar on pedal steel but some folks do and that's fine. On fast or R & R, I rather play super fast things that will fit into the song mixed with 7th chord positions in between some of the scales or licks. It just depends on the song and what the other instruments are doing. I make it a special point not to play on top of anybody but when the spots are open for PSG, I'll give it my very best shot.

David Doggett · Posted 17 Aug 2005 10:07 am

Concerning the question about using pedals for blues/rock, here are some more thoughts. You don't use the typical country pedal gliss (pedaling while sustaining between picked notes) in the same way. If you do a pedal gliss, it has to be with a blues phrasing and timing, or it will sound country. The real benefit of the pedals and knees is that they give so many different ways to play the same chord. A good example is the IIIb chord. On slide guitar this chord is 3 frets up from the tonic. A common slide blues lick is to pick the 3rd of the tonic, slide up 3 frets, where the sustained note becomes the 5th of the pentatonic scale. Then pick the next higher string (at the same IIIb fret), which is the 7th of the scale, then jump back to pick the high root of the key on the next higher string at the tonic fret. In other words you have played a major pentatonic run of 3, 5, 7b, 1, sluring the 3 and 5. This works because the 3rd and 5th intervals of the IIIb chord are the same notes as the 5 and 7b of the pentatonic scale. But it’s a little awkward going up the scale from 7b to 1 by dropping back 3 frets. Well, on E9 you can get that important IIIb chord two frets back of the tonic fret with the A and B pedals down. Now when you pick the 3 and 5 of that chord (5 and 7b of the scale), you get back up to the high root of the key by releasing the pedals and sliding back up two frets to the tonic, and you stay on the same string. Going back and forth between the IIIb and I with the pedals this way opens up all sorts of blues possibilities, both on the high strings, and on the low strings of a uni or extended E9.

Likewise, the F-lever/A-pedal position has interesting blues possibilities. In any key, if you go to the IIIb fret and engage F/A, you get the tonic. So you have a new tonic pocket there. You can go between the I and IIIb by engaging or releasing F/A. If you hold the F-lever and release the A-pedal, the root on string 5 drops to the 7th and you get a I7 chord. You can get either a major or minor pentatonic scale there. The 7th string is useful as the 4th of the scale. Holding the F-lever keeps it a major pentatonic scale. If you release the F-lever, that flats the 3rd and creates a minor pentatonic scale. So you can toggle between the 1 and 7b with the A pedal, and toggle between the 3 and 3b with the F lever – tons of pentatonic blues possibilities in that pocket.

It’s like Larry says, the notes are all there, and they are duplicated in lots of pockets. In fact the pedals and levers create so many pockets that you can get lost in the complication of the pedal steel. How many ways do you need to do the same thing? The beauty of 6-string slide that the Sacred Steelers have carried over to their pedal steel tuning is that the simple pentatonic scale is all there on the open strings, without messing with the pedals and levers. On other pedal steel copedants, the pedals create lots of additional pockets, but also additional complication that can slow you down. If you can learn to use all those pockets (I’m not there yet), you can get stuff on pedal steel that you can’t get with slide guitar or regular guitar. But it will have a bit of a new sound that hasn’t been heard before – it’s not exactly like traditional slide or 6-string blues guitar. In traditional blues, people don’t expect you to go beyond those traditional sounds. Maybe in fusion and blues-based jazz there is more room for all the extra stuff you can get with extended E9, C6, or a uni.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

The 6th and 9th sounds of the C6th neck work real well in rockabilly. Also, you can get the "tick tack bass" sound from the C6th neck it you work on it.

For blues I try to avoid obvious pedal sounds. I tend to think of the pedals as devices to change the tuning and hit them between notes or between phrases. I also take my foot off of the volume pedal for a more authentic blues sound.

In rock, using a pedal sound to get from b7 to root works okay. You have to be careful not to hit the country cliche pulls too often if you're playing with real rockers.

The rotary speaker effect works well if there's not a keyboard player in the band. I use a RotoSphere, but can get a reasonable simulation of the effect by shaking the bar at a tempo unrelated to the music.

Turn down the treble on your amp. Dial out the twang. Dial in a small amount of overdrive distortion if you can - not a full blown fuzz or anything that would trash your chords, just a bit of an edge.

There, I've just given away all of my secrets!

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)

Karlis Abolins · From: (near) Seattle, WA, USA

The replies to my post have been gems. I want to thank you all for your thoughtful insights. David, Have you ever tried to work out the traditional 6 string blues pockets (maybe with a new pedal or two?) to get the authentic blues sounds?
My big question has to do with the 7th string (E9 or SS tuning). will it be F#, E, or G. the E is obvious with the ability to fram across the low strings without using a pedal or lever. Dan Tyack likes his F# because of the versatility it gives to the tuning. You have to use a pedal or lever to get a big open-chord fram. The G really attracts me because of the ability to get a blues scale with less movement. Any thoughts on the G?

Karlis

David Doggett · Posted 17 Aug 2005 3:02 pm

Karlis, yes, I treat the no-pedals open pocket as if it were a 6-string open E tuning. You just have to learn to skip over the 7th string. Having a pedal to make that an E is an intriguing idea. In addition to getting rid of the F# temporarily, it would give a unison root, and all unisons are great for blues picking. With LKV I can raise the 7th string to G or G#, to get a 3b or a unison major 3rd. I wouldn't want to do without that. The 3rd string just gives you an extra chord note up there. Also, the RKR lowers the 2nd string D# to D, for a 7b up there. I can do some open string hammer-ons at the nut, but somehow it usually sounds too low down there for blues lead playing. For E blues, I probably spend more time at the 7th fret with the A and B pedals down. That puts the high root on the 3rd string; and, just like a 6-string E or D tuning, it's all tonic chord notes on down except for that 7th string (I play a uni, so the 9th string on down is also part of the tonic chord). My LKV (very easy to hit with your toes holding down the A and B pedals) raises strings 1 and 7 a half step to give 7b. So with the A and B pedals down and LKV engaged I have a I7 chord

For blues in A, the 5th fret with no pedals is my home position. I can lower the 8th string to a 7b with LKR, and get a high 7b with RKL. Drop back two frets and hit the A and B pedals for a IV; and the V is back at the 7th fret with the A and B pedals, or down at the nut, or up at the 12th fret.

So I basically see a 6-string open E tuning embedded in the E9 tuning, with roots on strings 4, 8 and 11 (uni), and some extra strings. With the A and B pedals down, I see the neck as an open A tuning with roots on 3, 6 and 10.

I have only just begun to work with it, but with the F-lever/A-pedal position, it is an open chord with roots on strings 5, 9 and 12 (5 and 10 on standard E9). At the nut this is a C# open chord, which is not very useful. But at the 3rd fret it is an E chord. The way I try to remember which fret gives the tonic with this is that from the no-pedal tonic it is the IIIb fret, which is a very familiar fret to any slide blues player. On a uni this is a very powerful blues position on the low strings, because it puts the root on the lowest string (12th). If you pick strings 9, 10 and 12 you have a movable power chord that you can march up and down the neck at the pentatonic positions at three frets up (IIIb), 5 frets (IV), 7 frets (V), 10 frets (VIIb), and 12 frets (I). On standard E9 you get the same power chord on strings 5, 6 and 10. It's an octave higher than what you can get on a uni; but by placing the root on the lowest string, it is still a very powerful position on standard E9. And starting on string 3 on down it is like an open A or G tuning on 6-string (the 5th is on top).

So, yes. Once you start thinking about it, you can relate any 6-string open tuning to some position on pedal steel.

One of the most powerful blues positions on a uni is the A pedal minor chord position (also works good on standard E9). On a 6-string, you would have to retune to get this, and then you would loose your major IV and V chords. On E9 the A pedal gives the relative minor at any given fret. When you use this position as the Im for a minor key blues, it puts the root on the lowest string (for both standard E9 and uni, which gives a whole extra low octave). You have great low power chords (1, 5, 1) for rhythm. And the ornery 7th string becomes the 4th note of the minor scale and the 3rd note of the blues pentatonic scale, and so is very useful for runs and melodies. Raised a half step with LKV, it becomes the 5b, also very useful. And raised a whole step (which my LKV does) it becomes a unison with the 5th. Likewise, this same stuff happens with string 1 at the top. From the A-pedal minor tonic position, drop back one fret and hit the A and B pedals and LKV, and you have V7. Six-string sliders can only dream of this stuff.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 17 August 2005 at 04:15 PM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

If you tune your 7th string to E, you will need a to raise it to F# somewhere. I think it depends on how much framming you do. If you only fram now and then, tune it to F# and have a lever that lowers it to E. It's more useful for lead lines as an F#.

I wouldn't tune a string to G in an E tuning. It's easy to raise the 7th or lower the 6th to get that note (I do both).

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

So that's where 'frammin' on the jim jam, slammin' on the frotz' comes from. I'll bet Al Marcus has done that.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Well, one more take on this. I agree with most of what has been said, but I of course have my own approach, tempered by many years of playing blues and rockabilly on guitar.

In blues playing, I try to mix expressive single-string and fat chord-melody types of figures. Blues is about emotion, not technique, but the nice fat chords add a lot in many places, especially on the jazzier blues, which I love. On gigs, I often get away with an E9 S-10 3+4, but if it was a 'mostly blues' or 'mostly rock/rockabilly' gig, I'd use my Universal S-14 8+5. I use my pedals a lot, and that includes the standard E9 pedals and levers. It's the way I use them that is different. I audibly slide a lot more than in country playing, and I approach notes much more like I do when I play slide or bent-note guitar. Still, I use the pedals a lot, and I don't shy away from doing a major bend if I think it fits. I like mixing major, minor and chromatic modalities, and many of my favorite blues players do this also. I don't worry about the biases of many "blues-rockers" to stick to pentatonics. Listening to guys like T-Bone Walker, Gatemouth Brown, B.B. King and many others do this took that bone out of my head a long time ago.

Practically every single combination of pedals and levers I've tried has something one can mine in playing blues. Think about how limited the traditional 'blues-open-tunings' are in terms of what is available. On PSG, one can have a 'home' box-pattern practically anywhere on the neck. Add to that some moving pedal sounds, and it creates a huge palette to work with. I agree with what was said above - slide guitar players drool at the possibilities - but the ones that I know are honestly intimidated by the PSG. Still, I'm honestly surprised a lot more haven't made the trip.

So I think blues fits PSG easily, but most bandmates in the past have been loathe to have me play anything but guitar on rockabilly stuff. The deciding factor on why I bailed out of my long-standing rockabilly band was the fact that the singer is simply prejudiced against steel for being too 'whiney'. He just couldn't get past the very idea of steel in a rockabilly context. Boo - hiss. Even though PSG does have a different tonality, I still say it sounds cool on rockabilly.

But rockabilly is so hot-rod, pompadour, fancy threads, cool guitars image-conscious. For many, the real downside is: With a PSG, how can you preen and posture without your fancy Gretsch 6120, and run around like a maniac and dance with all the rockabilly kitties?

Nonetheless, I do some rockabilly steel, and like others, I like 6th inflected chords - think Cliff Gallup, Eddie Cochran, and Brian Setzer - lots of slides into fat 6th, 6/9, and 13th chords and melodic/chromatic figures accented by slapback delay. Regardless of instrument, I think practically any fitting melodic or chromatic runs work well in rockabilly, but it's the attitude with which they are played with that makes it sound like rockabilly.

Frankly, I confess that sometimes I'm a bit torn knowing whether to play guitar or steel on a lot of rockin' material. They're different instruments, and each gives a different texture. So I've pretty much taken to shouldering a guitar while I play steel on this kind of stuff, and just switch Pod settings when switching back and forth. The only difficulty is that I play steel with thumbpick + 3-fingerpicks (I, M, R), but play guitar with flatpick + 2-fingerpicks (M, R). I've gotten pretty quick on switching, and if I'm trading solos or even 8's with the guitar player, I'll switch between guitar and steel on various rounds. But I think I really need to sit down and shed to get my guitar picking approach comfortable on steel, as have guys like Dick Meis and Jr. Brown.

On the subject of emulating other guitarists and steel players, I try not to. Although I sometimes quote well-known lines or players, I try very hard to sound like myself. I'm gonna try to mix blues, jazz, country, rockabilly, surf/instrumental guitar, bluegrass, and anything else I can think of, together, unless I'm working with a bunch of hardcore purists. I've done plenty of purist music, but I find that pretty much a straitjacket these days.

[This message was edited by Dave Mudgett on 17 August 2005 at 08:05 PM.]

Jay Fagerlie · From: Lotus, California, USA

What a great thread!
Thanks for all the input guys.
I'm gonna steel all of it!!!!
Jay

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

If I'm playing a blues in A, I'm going to be spending a lot of time based out of fret 0, with the B lever engaged, and using a lot of open strings. The next position I might spend a lot of time is the 3rd fret, using a lot of pedal movement. From there you have your basic minor pentatonic and 'blues scales' (how I hate that term) which are the building blocks.

I use pedals a lot for blues and especially for rockabilly and rock. Here's a blues cut where I am using a bunch of pedals (and open strings): Blame Somebody
But one of the keys of blues playing is to use a whole lot more bar movement to play lines, and to think about the solo as a vocal line rather than as a string of licks. My favorite excercise which I learned from the Sacred Steelers is to play all of your solos on a single string, with no pedals. Here's an example from my last record on a lap steel which is entirely on one string (except for the second to last note). Way Over Yonder solo

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www.tyack.com

[This message was edited by Dan Tyack on 18 August 2005 at 08:45 AM.]

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I think learning how to play melodies using as few strings as possible, up and down, and skipping strings, is the single biggest favor you can do your playing if you're trying to break the country cliches. That's more important than the specific tuning, as is a lighter bar - those 9 oz. behemoths are just too slow.

I've been working quite a bit on using fingerpicks on standard guitar since that subject last came up, and it seems to work much better for me to have a separate set of picks bent up for standard guitar with the tips angled way over so that they hit the strings flat. I have it set up so that I can move the index fingerpick over to my ring finger if I want to do the flatpick/fingerpick combo, but I'm moving towards blowing off the flatpick entirely (after 35 years!) and using up and down strokes with the (modded) thumbpick when needed.

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

When you play the rockabilly, don't forget to swing!

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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I disagree about the use of pedals and pedal licks in a roick or blues format. Pedal licks work great in that context. Just not the same way you’d use them in a country song.

Consider this. The pentatonic blues scale is 1, b3, 4, 5, and b7, with bends usually appearing between scale degrees 4 and 5, often with the b7 being played on another string at the same time. In the key if A these notes are A, C, D, F, and G, with the bend between D and E and while the G is played on the other string.

These are the exact same notes you’d play on a country song in the key of C. It’s the classic country pedal lick, holding down the B pedal and hitting the A while playing strings 4 and 5. But the trick is that you play the lick in C while the rest of the band is playing in A.

Furthermore, in the pedals down position, the 7th string becomes the root of the actual key and you can use that as the 1st degree of the scale.

Try this. Plant the bar on the 3rd fret and don’t move it. Normally, with the pedals down, you'd be in C, but if you play the 7th string, and use it as a root, you're now in A. So, first hit that 7th string. Then play 6th with the B pedal down. Then the 5th with the A pedal up, then mash the A pedal, then hit the 4th string. Or, if you wish, play the 4th and 5th strings simultaneously.

If you have a guitar player handy, do this while your guitar player plays an A chord, then a D then an E.

In fact, if your guitar player knows “Hotel California,” have him or her play every chord in the song while you play this lick.

You’ll be surprised at how well it works.

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Typically, When I get the RARE opportunity to play blues,I pick up my strat or a humbucker guitar and dig in... bob

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

David Doggett · Posted 20 Aug 2005 2:31 pm

The pedals-down position Mike is describing three frets up from an A tonic at the nut is the same position I described above as the IIIb position found two frets below the open pedal tonic A position at the 5th fret. I have also used strings 1 and 7 there, but had not really thought of them as being roots there. I consider strings 3 and 6 as roots there for the IIIb chord. But Mike's use is with strings 1 and 7 as roots of another chord there (a minor 7th?). The F lever can make it diminished or augmented (depending on whether the A and B pedals are up or down, respectively), and the E>Eb lever makes it yet another minor, or 6th. Whatever, there is just lots of stuff at that fret.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 20 August 2005 at 03:32 PM.]

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