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Topic: Does the pedal steel guitar world need more builders? |
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2018 5:47 pm |
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| Larry Carlson wrote: |
| Jeffrey McFadden wrote: |
Your truck isn't worth $2500?
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Well, I'm sorry but no it isn't.
If that disqualifies me from being a member of some 'magic club' I can't do anything about it. |
You are in the Handsome Old Dudes club. That is some pretty exclusive status, and I’m sure there is magic involved  |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2018 7:45 pm
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| Larry Carlson wrote: |
| Jeffrey McFadden wrote: |
Your truck isn't worth $2500?
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Well, I'm sorry but no it isn't.
If that disqualifies me from being a member of some 'magic club' I can't do anything about it. |
Not on my account. I spent most of my life that way. I hate to admit it, but being a 100% disabled veteran with VA benefits, medicine, and shrinks is what dragged me up a level. Before I took the benefits I missed a few meals. I'm glad you're here.
Money's a real issue. Even with my VA disability I spent about a year saving up for one. But the other reasons, your mechanical aptitude or not, shouldn't stop you if other concerns didn't, because PSGs really are worked out. Incredible. I've just never had such a music tool.
And my house is only 16 feet by 24 feet outside dimensions, so I'm still not living high on the hog myself.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 1:03 am
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| Jerry Dragon wrote: |
| I feel there is not enough representation of the instrument in other genres of music, or I just haven't heard it. |
Check out the links in my signature.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Jerry Dragon
From:
Gate City Va.
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 3:23 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| Jerry Dragon wrote: |
| I feel there is not enough representation of the instrument in other genres of music, or I just haven't heard it. |
Check out the links in my signature. |
nice, I like it. |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 6:47 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| Jerry Dragon wrote: |
| I feel there is not enough representation of the instrument in other genres of music, or I just haven't heard it. |
Check out the links in my signature. |
I would pay serious money for a front row seat in a small venue to see you perform live.
Your music is entirely wonderful.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 7:37 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| Jerry Dragon wrote: |
| I feel there is not enough representation of the instrument in other genres of music, or I just haven't heard it. |
Check out the links in my signature. |
Aside from a pedal steel guitar and an absolutely amazing level of knowledge and skill, what tools (programs, etc) did you use to create these recordings?
I just can't tell you enough how your approach to music, and your creations, pleases me. I will be listening to your recordings over and over.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 8:59 am
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Jeff, I'm giving 3 concerts in July. You're welcome to attend if you can somehow get here.
All my recording were made on a pair if Fostex 16 track analog tape decks. I went direct to the mixing board and did not use any amps.
I used the green MSA steel shown in my avatar, plus a variety of 6 string guitars mandolins, basses, etc.
I also used an E-bow on Afternoon of a Faun.
I used a Ernie Ball volume pedal. I found that my Goodrich (which I used on gig,) sounded too bright in my studio. The Ernie Ball cut down in the highs, and gave me the sound I wanted.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Chance Wilson
From:
California, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 10:38 am yes
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| We need someone to build them out of something other than maple and die board. There are better woods and other materials for cabinets and necks. I wish there had been a keyless model when MSA made the CF Milleniums. If maple was the end all tone wood or if it had better physical characteristics than other woods, I'd get it, but it isn't and it doesn't. Steel players are such perfectionists and then when it comes to their bodies and necks they say "well this is relatievely cheap, easy to get and easy to machine, let's just use maple and die board". The looks could be better too-you can't make them out of 5A Birdseye anymore, but you can get 5A veneers. |
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Carl Heatley
From:
Morehead City,NC
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 11:25 am Re: yes
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| Chance Wilson wrote: |
| We need someone to build them out of something other than maple and die board. There are better woods and other materials for cabinets and necks. I wish there had been a keyless model when MSA made the CF Milleniums. If maple was the end all tone wood or if it had better physical characteristics than other woods, I'd get it, but it isn't and it doesn't. Steel players are such perfectionists and then when it comes to their bodies and necks they say "well this is relatievely cheap, easy to get and easy to machine, let's just use maple and die board". The looks could be better too-you can't make them out of 5A Birdseye anymore, but you can get 5A veneers. |
You choose the materials and I,ll build it!!
The one below came out at 47 lbs in the case.
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 11:36 am
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Chance -
Maple is a compromise, which is what production managers do to control costs. What other woods are you suggesting?
BTW, here is an interesting thread on the topic. Maybe you contributed to it.
https://www.steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/009730.html |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 11:40 am Re: yes
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| Chance Wilson wrote: |
We need someone to build them out of something other than maple and die board. There are better woods and other materials for cabinets and necks.
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There is a 6 string guitar company called Blackbird that makes guitars out of either carbon fiber like the Millennium, or a synthetic material called Ekoa.
https://www.blackbirdguitar.com/
This material might be good for building steels.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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James Winger
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 12:06 pm Re: yes
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
There is a 6 string guitar company called Blackbird that makes guitars out of either carbon fiber like the Millennium, or a synthetic material called Ekoa.
https://www.blackbirdguitar.com/
This material might be good for building steels. |
CF is certainly making inroads. The latest gen bows are getting pretty damn good from what I understand...Pernambuco I think was the canary in the coalmine we are now starting to see with rosewoods, etc in the latest CITES export.
not that the issues are the same, but we are seeing the march in the tech
the bicycling industry might be an even better example as the materials and construction advance regularly
this month's sci-am has an article on newer "superwood" technology
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stronger-than-steel-able-to-stop-a-speeding-bullet-mdash-it-rsquo-s-super-wood/
(hope that link works, I m a regular sci-am reader) |
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James Winger
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 12:23 pm
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| Jeffrey McFadden wrote: |
It is my opinion that the tendency to limit the pedal steel to just country music is the worst thing that could possibly be done to the pedal steel manufacturers of the world. Limiting it to just traditional country is even worse. Talk about your dead end - they ain't making no more of that.
I don't play traditional pedal steel music, I play music and see pedal steel as an incredibly flexible, capable instrument to give the guitar player, especially one with arthritic hands, the ability to express whatever musical feeling one has in whatever genre one chooses.
I will grant you that much of traditional country couldn't have been what it was without the distinctive sound the early greats created, but I don't think that automatically limits the instrument's capabilities. |
Well, said
I'm 48 from a classic[al] guitar and gamba background (hey, at least many peope know that the PSG exists, say viola da gamba and their eys glaze)
In fact, I don't really have all that much interest in country as a playing style.
That'sNOT meant as anindicment(hey, I enjoy hindustani music too, but I don't play a surbahar)
don't get me wrong, I think it's fine music and I enjoy listening to it.
But I will say my favorite player is Susan Alcorn, I enjoy Mr Perlowin's music very much (now there's my own bias considering my background)
I went to Robert Randolph's show the last time he was in town and I think he could/is doing a lot to integrate the instrument into a modern rock context
It's those 3 players I'll spin to give guest listeners an idea that PSG can do all kinds of cool stuff that isn't "that country sound"
As you say, I think it added a lot to a trad country sound -- which is a mixed blessing because I think it's like a brilliant actor who has been typecast due to a popular role.
I'll admit, besides looking for a wholly new experience and a way of thinking that can go along with it, preserving something that could go away is something I'm interested in.
Hopefully, if I can make it stick, maybe I can be a bridge between 70 and 30
I figure for an instrument to be truly integrated
there's gotta be some mediocre players and some hacks.
and I have a rich history of being a hack  |
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gary pierce
From:
Rossville TN
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 12:25 pm Re: yes
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| Carl Heatley wrote: |
| Chance Wilson wrote: |
| We need someone to build them out of something other than maple and die board. There are better woods and other materials for cabinets and necks. I wish there had been a keyless model when MSA made the CF Milleniums. If maple was the end all tone wood or if it had better physical characteristics than other woods, I'd get it, but it isn't and it doesn't. Steel players are such perfectionists and then when it comes to their bodies and necks they say "well this is relatievely cheap, easy to get and easy to machine, let's just use maple and die board". The looks could be better too-you can't make them out of 5A Birdseye anymore, but you can get 5A veneers. |
You choose the materials and I,ll build it!!
The one below came out at 47 lbs in the case.
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Carl, you are doing what the industry needs for players to get started without a huge investment. There are plenty top of the line builders, but people like you will make it easier for the younger generation to try out pedal steel.
If there was a way to build a $500 starter steel I think they would sell like hot cakes. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 1:28 pm
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| James Winger wrote: |
| Jeffrey McFadden wrote: |
It is my opinion that the tendency to limit the pedal steel to just country music is the worst thing that could possibly be done to the pedal steel manufacturers of the world. Limiting it to just traditional country is even worse. Talk about your dead end - they ain't making no more of that.
I don't play traditional pedal steel music, I play music and see pedal steel as an incredibly flexible, capable instrument to give the guitar player, especially one with arthritic hands, the ability to express whatever musical feeling one has in whatever genre one chooses.
I will grant you that much of traditional country couldn't have been what it was without the distinctive sound the early greats created, but I don't think that automatically limits the instrument's capabilities. |
Well, said
I'm 48 from a classic[al] guitar and gamba background (hey, at least many peope know that the PSG exists, say viola da gamba and their eys glaze)
In fact, I don't really have all that much interest in country as a playing style.
That'sNOT meant as anindicment(hey, I enjoy hindustani music too, but I don't play a surbahar)
don't get me wrong, I think it's fine music and I enjoy listening to it.
But I will say my favorite player is Susan Alcorn, I enjoy Mr Perlowin's music very much (now there's my own bias considering my background)
I went to Robert Randolph's show the last time he was in town and I think he could/is doing a lot to integrate the instrument into a modern rock context
It's those 3 players I'll spin to give guest listeners an idea that PSG can do all kinds of cool stuff that isn't "that country sound"
As you say, I think it added a lot to a trad country sound -- which is a mixed blessing because I think it's like a brilliant actor who has been typecast due to a popular role.
I'll admit, besides looking for a wholly new experience and a way of thinking that can go along with it, preserving something that could go away is something I'm interested in.
Hopefully, if I can make it stick, maybe I can be a bridge between 70 and 30
I figure for an instrument to be truly integrated
there's gotta be some mediocre players and some hacks.
and I have a rich history of being a hack |
James, Some more names to add to your list are Hal Merrill, who plays jazz, Joe Goldmark, Joe Savage, Spencer Gillum who plays in an all instrumental rock band named Steelism,
https://www.facebook.com/SteelismMusic
and Ned Selfe, whose CD Errands in Paradise is one of the best steel guitar CDs I've ever heard.
Selfe's CD is not actually a "Steel Guitar" CD as much as it is an album of great music that's played on a steel, as well as a dobro and some other instruments. This is a true gem that has been largely overlooked by our community. I give it 5 stars.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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James Winger
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 9:33 pm
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
James, Some more names to add to your list are Hal Merrill, who plays jazz, Joe Goldmark, Joe Savage, Spencer Gillum who plays in an all instrumental rock band named Steelism,
https://www.facebook.com/SteelismMusic
and Ned Selfe, whose CD Errands in Paradise is one of the best steel guitar CDs I've ever heard.
Selfe's CD is not actually a "Steel Guitar" CD as much as it is an album of great music that's played on a steel, as well as a dobro and some other instruments. This is a true gem that has been largely overlooked by our community. I give it 5 stars. |
I'll certainly pcik them up
BTW (when I checked last, amazon was out of your spanish steel in cd format) - is there a preferred outlet that I should use to purchase your music? |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Chance Wilson
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2018 12:58 am wood
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Carl, don’t tempt me-if I got to spec a pedal steel the way I spec my Spanish guitars, you’d be in for a real knuckle-buster. My last prototype was inspired by Ken Parker’s arch tops crossed with an old Stella. I think a pedal steel with pickups suspended from a floating neck and nothing except maybe the nut and bridge attached to the top deck would be an interesting place to start. I’m not familiar with your work and would love to hear about your construction ideas and your current specs.
Mike, Ekoa is definitely on the right track. I'm really curious if their plant resin is an equal to the epoxies used in other composite materials.
Fred, I will go read the thread you posted next-I’d have to put some thought into it but if I were to suggest alternative solid woods, I’d start with doing my homework: Who sold the most steels? Pre CBS Fender and Rickenbac-h-k-er. What woods and materials did they use? (not maple) Why don’t all those great sounding fingertips have maple aprons? Can someone make lightweight Bakelite? The next thing I would do is address why with so much more string tension than a Spanish guitar, the maple cabinets (and when structural, necks) don’t have reinforcement other than a cross strap. Like Bigsby and Fender, I don’t like Truss rods-they create an unnecessary cavity. No truss Martins sure sound good to me.
But, I have made Spanish guitars with aluminum, steel, carbon fiber and titanium bars in them with great success. So maple could still be used if it was laminated on any axis with a lighter material with superior physical characteristics. Personally, I would prefer not to use solid woods. It’s more labor intensive than putting reinforcement materials in a solid maple cabinet, but I think a lightweight material skinned with a very hard material as in boat decks, surfboards and such would be the most likely rabbit hole to go down. It’s a natural course when we’ve already accepted black mica and it’s inline with sustainability and such. |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 5 Mar 2018 1:54 am
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Nearly all the old famous pedal steel players released instrumental albums of pop classics on major labels with distribution and they didn't go anywhere. I loved those records because I enjoy pop music as well as country but I'm afraid only steel players bought them and few at that. The cold hard fact remains is that for everyone that loves steel guitar 8 literally hate the sound of it and the rest are indifferent. I know because I spent a lifetime as a musical instrument and pro audio salesman in music stores as well as moonlighting on pedal steel on the weekend nights. To most people they are similar to bagpipes. Bagpipes is a cool sound when used on the right record like this one....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIXV0cir4-E |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2018 8:29 am
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| David Mitchell wrote: |
. The cold hard fact remains is that for everyone that loves steel guitar 8 literally hate the sound of it and the rest are indifferent.
To most people they are similar to bagpipes. |
It is also a proven fact that for every one person with decent taste in music there are 8 hopelessly ignorant souls who have no taste. And I’m being very liberal with that, given the bagpipes comment, which I believe is reasonably accurate. We can do nothing about this except soldier onward and hope against the odds that humanity will evolve... |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2018 9:20 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
James, Some more names to add to your list are Hal Merrill, who plays jazz, Joe Goldmark, Joe Savage, Spencer Gillum who plays in an all instrumental rock band named Steelism,
https://www.facebook.com/SteelismMusic
and Ned Selfe, whose CD Errands in Paradise is one of the best steel guitar CDs I've ever heard.
Selfe's CD is not actually a "Steel Guitar" CD as much as it is an album of great music that's played on a steel, as well as a dobro and some other instruments. This is a true gem that has been largely overlooked by our community. I give it 5 stars. |
For any readers who don't do Facebook, here is Steelism's YouTube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/user/steelismmusic
I'd say bands like this are the best hope for the steel guitar manufacturing industry. Young. Forward looking. A new market.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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gary pierce
From:
Rossville TN
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Posted 5 Mar 2018 9:25 am
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Topic: Does the pedal steel guitar world need more builders? 
Yes we can always use more choices. |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 5 Mar 2018 12:00 pm
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Pedal steel can be represented with taste in any genre as Mike Perlowin so eloquently does. Or Paul's work with Dire Straits. I'm sure there are others.
However, this "cool bagpipes" demonstration is not the Great Highland Bagpipe represented with taste. It in fact is a non-representation because many of the things you hear on that video, the Highland bagpipe is not physically capable of.
~Bill |
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Steve Waltz
From:
USA
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Posted 12 Mar 2018 3:49 pm
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Seems to me that we would have a more varied choice in pedal steel if someone would mass produce the standard underside parts and leave the body to the builder.....kind of like the LS motors that seem to be going into every single custom car these days. If every single car builder had to make their own engines, they wouldn't be able to create anything. That standard engine also makes it easier for aftermarket people to build upgrades to that motor if someone wants it and they get to focus on the other aspects of the car.
Those machined parts of the steel have to be seriously time consuming and expensive to make for small shops. I've looked for bell cranks and it seems that each one can be up to $30 a piece. There aren't that many people making parts or they focus on highly polished parts for people that think the mirror finish of a bell crank is important.
I have at least two old guitars that could use a whole new underside but I'n not willing to pay a couple of grand for parts for them. It seems like parts could be cheaper and still be a higher quality and maybe even almost drop in.
Chance...let me know when you are in town and lets catch up. |
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Chance Wilson
From:
California, USA
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Posted 12 Mar 2018 10:04 pm Steve! I
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| Steve! I’ll pm you |
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