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Topic: more and or different Pedals & Knee Lever questions |
Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 2:02 pm |
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I'd like to know if there is something I can put on the old C# pedal (this change has been moved to my LK Vertical).
Surely there is a change or addition that can be used with the B Pedal (where one can depress both pedals and/or rock back & forth like the A-B setup.
Got any ideas. I also have a 4th pedal too. It changes 1 & 2
MY LKL lowers my Es (Day setup), my LKR raises my Es, My RKL changes my 2 & 7, my RKR changes my 5 & 10.... I think (I may move that to to RKL to keep the pressure to one side) then move the 2 & 7 to the RKR
Got any ideas....
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Steel Guitar players are members of a Special Family |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 4:00 pm
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Not implying criticism in any way. I would put the B to C# raise back on the C pedal and free up the vertical for something else such as B to Bb for example. That is just my opinion. I'm sure there are other options.
~Bill~ |
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Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 5:23 pm The C pedal
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The C pedal is the vertical on my guitar. Usage is a split second event. The movement is about a 1/2 inch & is instantaneous when you have the A & B Pedals down. One thing I don't know is how much is the C pedal is used by itself.
Maybe I should research that too....
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Steel Guitar players are members of a Special Family |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 8 Mar 2018 6:36 am Re: The C pedal
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| Charley Bond wrote: |
The C pedal is the vertical on my guitar. Usage is a split second event. The movement is about a 1/2 inch & is instantaneous when you have the A & B Pedals down. One thing I don't know is how much is the C pedal is used by itself.
Maybe I should research that too.... |
Hi Charley, First, you are playing a "Day" setup. If so, then Your C pedal is Pedal 1 correct? Which in the Day setup, is strings 4 and 5 raising a whole tone.
Now, to answer your question, C pedal by itself (Emmons or Day), creates a perfect 4th interval between those two (45)strings. Play C pedal by itself and add the 6th string or the 3rd string you get a C#sus (suspended 4th) which is used on occasion I would say. Similar to what happens when you play pedal B by itself. It creates a sus chord. Example strings 865 open is a root position E Major triad, if you engage the B pedal that raises string 6 from G# to A and that creates an Esus (suspended 4th)
But, I'm trying to understand why it would be set up the way as you described. You are saying, that with AB pedals down, then you raise the vertical (which is your "C" pedal) its a "Split second" action? Meaning it moves really quickly and easily with only a 1/2" of travel?
You say that your left knee vertical raises strings 4 and 5 a whole tone? If so, with AB pedals down, this only accomplishes the string 4 raise then. Because pedal A already has string 5 raised by a whole tone. This would be a most unusual set up, if in fact I understand you correctly?
Back to the reason for my first statement. Better to put the strings 4 and 5 raise back on the C pedal. Then you can devote the vertical to something much more useful.
Click the LINKS tab upper right of your screen. go to copedents. Check out Tommy White's E9 copedent. He is a most accomplished "Day" player.
Hope I am understanding you correctly and I hope this helps you.
~Bill~
Last edited by Bill C. Buntin on 8 Mar 2018 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2018 3:51 pm
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In the attached image, the chords in the Key of C are shown.
Even in other keys, suspended chords are not shown. I am not an accomplished player, so when you speak of such things, my eyes cross & once again I'm lost.
So, are these susChords just different voicings or WHAT..?
Moving the 4 & 5 strings that go to F# & C#, back to Pedal 1 with the Bs is no problem, but I still wonder about the C pedal being used alone or in concert with something else that might go there, I do have 4 pedals.
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Steel Guitar players are members of a Special Family
Last edited by Charley Bond on 8 Mar 2018 4:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 8 Mar 2018 4:16 pm
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Charley, I was thinking of the most basic way to explain what C pedal does by itself.
It would be a huge effort to try to type out C pedal usage(s) by itself.
I still want to make clear that the C pedal, either in Day or Emmons configuration raises strings 4 and 5 up a whole tone. Not strings 4 and 8.
If you are not an accomplished player, thats ok. Thats what this forum is for. All about sharing and learning and there are many of us on here willing to assist.
The best practical advice, for beginning players, is to have a guitar that is in a standard configuration. (Day or Emmons) I can't stress enough, you should most certainly return the C pedal to its normal function. Worry about your Vertical later.
In my opinion, this is the best thing you can do. It does not make good musical sense really to have the pedal c functions on the vertical. In that configuration it suggests the very same as if someone with a standard day or emmons set up were to depress ABC pedals all at the same time.
Summary:
Put the strings 4 and 5 whole tone raises back on the C pedal. Then work from there. Work on the vertical lever down the road as you gain experience.
Good Luck
Bill |
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Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2018 4:25 pm lowering the Bs
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Is the pedal or lever that lowers the Bs used in conjunction with Pedals up or down..?
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Steel Guitar players are members of a Special Family |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 8 Mar 2018 4:53 pm
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Both. Its most obvious uses are:
Turning the E9th into an F#9 (no pedals, by dropping the 5ths, you imply going up a half step)
Turning C#m into C#m(maj7) (with the A pedal down, often followed by the open note, then the lowered Bs alone)
Turning A into Am (A and B pedals down).
I have to admit I'm at a loss as to why you'd decommission the change without having a replacement in mind.
I also cannot think of any changes that would work with the B pedal to put on P1 now that it's not a C pedal.
I often have the following advice for newbies who want to start wrenching on their first guitar: don't change the copedent until you have a real good idea of what you'll gain and what you'll lose. If I played Day and wanted to move the whole tone raise of 4 to a knee, I'd probably put the B pedal on P1, A pedal on P2, put the 1st and 2nd string raise on P3 and go from there, and make sure that the half tone drop of 5 can be used with the 2nd string lower.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 8 Mar 2018 5:03 pm
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Charlie it doesn't matter whether you're playing Emmons or Day. But you should know that the standard E9 tuning did not just spring up out of nowhere. It is the result of the combined ideas of people like Buddy Emmons, Hal Rugg, Pete Drake, Lloyd Green, Jimmy Crawford and Jimmy Day.
The story is that these men, these geniuses, used to meet once a week to discuss pedal changes. They would go home and experiment with different changes, and come back a week later to discuss the pros and cons of their experiments. And the E9 tuning is the result of these experiments and discussions. They figured it all out, and they got it right.
Every so often, somebody tries something different. sometimes it works, sometimes not. But as a newbie, the best thing you can do is have your guitar set up with a standard setup (either Emmons or Day,)get some instruction material, and start practicing.
You asked about the B to Bb change. This is a very versatile change that has all sorts of uses, but most of them are not readily apparent. It's an advanced change; not something you need concern yourself with at the moment.
Get your guitar set up with a standard setup, get some instruction material, and get to work woodshedding.
Abd if possible, join a band.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 8 Mar 2018 5:07 pm Re: lowering the Bs
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| Charley Bond wrote: |
| Is the pedal or lever that lowers the Bs used in conjunction with Pedals up or down..? |
It is sometimes used with the pedals up, and sometimes with them down. This is nor something you should be thinking about right now. See my previous post.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2018 5:18 pm The Franklin pedal (or lever)
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At this moment, my guitar is setup like Tommy White' Day setup... so I guess I will leave it that way... I'm setup in front of the TV, so me & YouTube can become good friends.
When I said I wasn't an accomplished p[layer, I didn't mean to imply that I was a beginner. I used to play in bands, when I was younger & played everyday. Now I'm 75 with a "new to me" SIERRA to have fun.
Being an Engineer was a great profession, but Engineers have a design flaw built it. They are never satisfied with things that come out of a box, they want to make some changes...
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Steel Guitar players are members of a Special Family |
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Al Evans
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2018 5:29 am
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| Charley Bond wrote: |
So, are these susChords just different voicings or WHAT..?
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I don't think anybody answered this question: A "suspended" chord is one that contains a non-chord note that is "expected" to resolve to a note in the chord, namely the 3. So a sus4 chord has 1-4-5, and the listener's ears expect it to become 1-3-5 at some future moment. Similarly, a sus2 chord has 1-2-5, and is "expected" to resolve to 1-3-5.
--Al Evans
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2018 MSA Legend, 2018 ZumSteel Encore, 2015 Mullen G2, G&L S-500, G&L ASAT, G&L LB-100, Godin A4 Fretless, Kinscherff High Noon |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2018 9:01 am
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You asked for something to put in place of the "C" pedal because you already have high E to F# on LKV. I had my X lever (B to Bb) there for years, but it looks like you have that on RKR which is fine.
I suggest lowering 9 (D to C#) and 10 (B to A). I had this change for a while. It's very handy for rhythm chops behind another soloist. Combined with the B pedal, it gives you a full A major chord on the low strings.
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