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Topic: Steel on non Country records |
Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 5 Mar 2018 5:37 am |
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I often wondered what made artists or producers decide to employ steel (maybe only for one track) on a record. There are many examples: Carpenters, Clapton, Tim Hardin.
The only info I have is for "Teach Your Children". Is there any more information?
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Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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gary pierce
From:
Rossville TN
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Posted 5 Mar 2018 9:42 am
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Loyd Green on Paul McCartney''s Sally G.
Last year I did a session at Sun Studio's on dobro, and steel for an Italian singer, song writer, Ms Roberta Finocchiaro, it was a lot of fun, but we could not speak each others language. |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2018 9:03 pm
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Jackson Browne has featured steel heavily throughout his career. Sneaky Pete played on some of his early albums, in particular his For Everyman. David Lindley was with him on lap steel for some years and again after a hiatus, and between Lindley he has relied on other steel players, both lap and pedal.
Sneaky Pete on Jackson Browne's original (1970s) recording of Take It Easy / Our Lady of The Well was what originally turned me on to steel, me being not a big country fan.
There was also quite a bit of pedal steel on Grateful Dead recordings, and lap steel on Pink Floyd. In both those cases regular band members played steel.
(BTW, little known obscure fact, Jackson Browne co-wrote Take It Easy and released it about the same time as the Eagles.)
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Tim Russell
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2018 10:41 pm
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Pete Drake did some recording on Bob Dylan albums. Paul Franklin with Dire Straits/Mark Knopfler, others.
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Sierra Crown D-10 |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 2:52 am
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Many examples exist back into the 1930s. Most of the instances occur when a pop or rock vocalist is going for an overtly country or Hawaiian sound on a particular song. Such as certain recordings by Louis Armstrong, Bob Dylan, Louis Jordan, Patti Page, Jerry Garcia, Frank Sinatra, Fats Waller, Ry Cooder, Jo Stafford, Doris Day, Johnny Mercer, etc.
However, once in a great while, steel really surprises you when it shows up very unexpectedly.
For example:
The Alley Cats; “Spang-A-Langâ€; rock and roll from 1957, with what must be Speedy West on steel.
Sarah Vaughan; “Hot and Cold Running Tearsâ€; uptempo pop from 1956. Supposedly recorded in New York City, but sounds exactly like Speedy on steel. Could he have been on the east coast for that session?
Georgie Auld; “Song Of Indiaâ€; pop from 1959, with Candido Dimanlig and/or Dennis Regor on steel.
Eartha Kitt; “Lovin’ Spreeâ€; early 1950s pop, with Noel Boggs on steel.
Alma Sinti; “Nivram†and “The Slide Stomperâ€; post 2000 French jazz/pop, with Andre Venturini on steel.
I was astonished to hear steel behind Sarah, although it fits in very well. What was the producer thinking? I don’t know of any other instance of a steel guitar on a Vaughan recording, so I can only wonder what led to the call for that instrument on this one session.
I'd like to hear more of Venturini. He has a retro sound that reminds me a little of Joaquin that goes well with the gypsy jazz thing. Here's a pic. Does anyone know anything about him??
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Steve Hitsman
From:
Waterloo, IL
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 5:03 am
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| Sneaky Pete... "It Just Might Be a One Shot Deal"... Zappa's Waka Jawaka. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 5:14 am Re: Steel on non Country records
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| Joachim Kettner wrote: |
I often wondered what made artists or producers decide to employ steel (maybe only for one track) on a record. There are many examples: Carpenters, Clapton, Tim Hardin.
The only info I have is for "Teach Your Children". Is there any more information? |
I think that after the '70s, the newer generation of producers were far less open-minded about the instrumentation. The '60s and '70s, in particular, featured chart pop songs with almost any instrument. Pedal steel, banjo, oboe, tuba, ocarina, you name it. Starting in the '80s, the variety of sounds and instruments was gone, and that's carried through right up to today. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 7:02 am
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Not exactly sure this addresses "I often wondered what made artists or producers decide to employ steel (maybe only for one track) on a record." But if you want to see a lot of examples, a good place to start looking for pedal steel on non-country records of the last 40-50 years is to look at the credit list of Sneaky Pete Kleinow - Click here
Then look at the performance credit list for Pete Drake - Click here
Of course, not all of these are non-traditional-country, but a bunch are. As to why artists and producers decided to use steel - I guess you will have to do some digging into individual recordings. But having listened to a lot of this for the last 40-50 years, my take is that the steel added something to the overall sound nothing else could possibly have.
Of course, many others did outside-traditional-country recordings - Buddy on Someday Soon and plenty of others, Lloyd and Jay Dee on Sweetheart, Red Rhodes on Mike Nesmith and James Taylor records, Ben Keith with Neil Young - there are lots of examples. But Pete and Pete really did a lot of pretty high-profile sessions like this. |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 7:47 am Re: Steel on non Country records
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Dave, I was aiming more in the direction of the answer Donny gave. Thank you and the others for examples, but I knew them mostly all (except for Mitch's).
| Donny Hinson wrote: |
I think that after the '70s, the newer generation of producers were far less open-minded about the instrumentation. The '60s and '70s, in particular, featured chart pop songs with almost any instrument. Pedal steel, banjo, oboe, tuba, ocarina, you name it. Starting in the '80s, the variety of sounds and instruments was gone, and that's carried through right up to today. |
I was looking more for, like, quotes from interviews or member's experiences when and how someone had the bright idea to include steel.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 9:11 am
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| Quote: |
| I'd like to hear more of Venturini. He has a retro sound that reminds me a little of Joaquin that goes well with the gypsy jazz thing. Here's a pic. Does anyone know anything about him?? |
https://www.discogs.com/artist/3720263-André-Venturini |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 12:05 pm Re: Steel on non Country records
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| Joachim Kettner wrote: |
Dave, I was aiming more in the direction of the answer Donny gave. Thank you and the others for examples, but I knew them mostly all (except for Mitch's)...
I was looking more for, like, quotes from interviews or member's experiences when and how someone had the bright idea to include steel. |
Well, I wish I had the time and incentive to invest a lot of time and effort on this subject. But frankly (and with all due respect) there are more than a few here on the forum who think that I contribute far too much as it is! 
Some information is available, though, if you're willing to search the web diligently enough.
For example:
http://www.petedrake.net/2012/08/12/pete-drake-and-george-harrisons-all-things-must-pass/
and...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._J._Cole |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 12:11 pm
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| Barry Blackwood wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'd like to hear more of Venturini. He has a retro sound that reminds me a little of Joaquin that goes well with the gypsy jazz thing. Here's a pic. Does anyone know anything about him?? |
https://www.discogs.com/artist/3720263-André-Venturini |
Yeah, Barry, I saw that yesterday and ran down that picture through that link.
Those 2 CDs mentioned are the only recordings he has appeared on as far as I can tell. He's on only 2 tracks on each CD
I've heard the second one, with Patrick Saussois and Alma Sinti.
Here is "The Slide Stomper" from the second CD:
http://picosong.com/wkrGj
Pretty tasty.
Is that a pedal steel? |
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Larry McFall
From:
Huntsville,Alabama, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 12:57 pm Recording Steel Guitar Arrangments
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When I started playing the steel guitar in around 1948 there was a lot of interest in the United States (US) in Hawaiian music, specially music employing the "Electric Hawaiian Steel Guitar". In my case my father who was in the Navy during WWII whos ship was hit in Okinawa crippled back to Pearl Harbor to get it repaired and of course, they had a lot of liberty with time to listen to the local music and of course, observe the Hula Girl shows. When he got home he decided that his little boy ought to play that "Hawaiian Steel Guitar" and the rest is history.
I actually think the employment of US interest started long time before my time and was actually employed in US Country Music by a few adventuresome country bands. Of course when people like the sound, producers finds a way to make money from it recording with sales which becomes the standard.
Got to say, I am sure glad they recorded it and kept the sound around for I love it like no other musical instrument. My 1957 Fender Stringmaster D8 and I have a very close relationship.
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Played the Steel from 1948. Have had the opportunity to play a multitude of Military venues considering I spent over 32 years with the U.S. Army. Got to play in many foreign countries which was fantastic. Married to the same woman for more than 57 years. Have children, all of them served in the military. 7 Grandchildren. |
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Joseph Napolitano
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 7:23 pm
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| Paul Franklin on " So Nice to be With You", the AM pop hit. I think Paul was around 14 y/o when he did that session. |
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Joerg Hennig
From:
Bavaria, Germany
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 12:16 pm
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Don't forget B.J. Cole from the UK (I see Donny mentioned him already), he played on many records by non-country artists and some famous ones among them. Only recently I discovered that BJ also played on several Humble Pie albums from the early '70s, some not too complicated but really beautiful steel playing. And then of course on Dave Edmunds' Rockpile album from 1972, which has been a favorite of mine way before I picked up steel myself.
I don't think there were any specific reasons for using steel. My guess is artists in those days were just pretty open-minded and just liked the sound of it.
For non-pedal steel in a non-country environment, my favorite has to be Glenn Ross Campbell (The Misunderstood, Juicy Lucy, Dirty Blues Band). That's about as far from country as you can get, it shows that also the non-pedal or console steel guitar is perfectly capable as a rock and blues instrument.
Another non-pedal player entirely devoted to the blues and with a distinctive style is Freddie Roulette. I first became aware of him through some tunes he recorded with slide guitar legend Earl Hooker. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 3:25 pm
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| Joseph Napolitano wrote: |
| Paul Franklin on " So Nice to be With You", the AM pop hit. I think Paul was around 14 y/o when he did that session. |
Was this the song by Gallery sounding like "Gerry and The Pacemakers meets Herman's Hermits?"
Rarely do we get info from the musical directors of many songs/albums as to why they chose a certain instrument.
My thinking is they used steel on non country songs to cross genre and get a wider audience and sales.
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ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Joseph Napolitano
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 6:40 pm
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| Yes Godfrey. |
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John Limbach
From:
Billings, Montana, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 8:36 pm
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| Who played steel on early Sinatra recording of "Sunflower"? |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 10:37 pm
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| John Limbach wrote: |
| Who played steel on early Sinatra recording of "Sunflower"? |
The late Billy Tonnesen--a long time member of this forum.
Speedy West played on Frank's "Tennessee Newsboy", but I haven't found out who is on "Bali Ha'i". |
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John Limbach
From:
Billings, Montana, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2018 5:19 am
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| Thanks, Mitch. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 8 Mar 2018 10:05 am
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| Quote: |
| Dave Edmunds' Rockpile album from 1972 |
I haven't heard that album, Joerg. Which tracks feature BJ?
This is him with Gerry Hogan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTtyIekYy2A
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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robert kramer
From:
Nashville TN
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Posted 9 Mar 2018 12:44 pm
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I think Rusty Young and Poco should be on the list. Especially the "Good Feeling To Know" record. Although they are considered pioneers of "Country/Rock", Generally. I think of them as rock with a strong flavor of country, basically due to the pedal steel and the crowd they attracted.
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Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Sierra Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8: |
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 12 Mar 2018 10:45 am
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the music industry seemed to have a love affair with pedal steel throughout the early/mid 70s. in addition to pop records, you could hear steel on commercials, TV shows, movies, etc.
other examples include Steely Dan's first single Dallas and their first 3 albums. Grateful Dead featured steel prominently on their American Beauty and Workingman's Dead albums among others. Stevie Wonder on his Fulfillingness First Finale album. George Harrison's All Things Must Pass album. the list goes on and on
one interesting thing about the Carpenters song Top of the World... Red Rhodes played the intro, then Buddy Emmons was called in to play the fills
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1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster |
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