Fender steel.. tuning, advice,thoughts etc...

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Got my Fender 400 pedal steel.. QUITE nice ... Not mint but VERY good!... It is set up High G# to Low B like string 3 through 10 on a standard E9... I am more "top end" oriented,and I feel like F# to Low E [1 through 8 on standard E9] would suit me better.. any thoughts??...

The guitar seems to play nicely.. needs a bit of tweaking,nothing that I can't handle. I really think it sustains as well as a modern guitar, NO problem there.

It sounds very nice, but no better or more "Fendery" than my Carter with an 8 K truetone,... actually they sound VERY close.. I A/B'd them just today. Very surprising.. I was told by a Fender 400 owner that my Carter sounded JUST like his 400, but I took it with a grain of salt. He wasn't lying.

Kudos to Jerry Wallace.. He TOLD me he'd use an 8 K Fender style winding on the coil tap pickup he made me.. I told him I wanted that coil to have a "Fender Like" sound.. sure enough,that what he got me!!

I can tell right away, that I'll NEVER get used to NO knee levers... They look like a Snap to install, but I am thinking of just setting this guitar up nicely,passing it on , and getting a Fender 800 with 10 strings... A forum friend has one thats been re finished, so I don't need to worry about mods.. I'd rather NOT mod this 400..

It really is limited with only 4 pedals and NO knees. The 800 has 6 pedals, 10 strings, and its already been modded.. I think maybe it makes more sense to someone who wants a Fender to PLAY and not look at to get a steel thats already been "compromised"...I am thinking hard here,and I welcome your input as always.

.. In any case, I would REALLY like to discuss Fender cable guitar mechanics, with someone that knows them well.. I need info on the large "roller" looking thing that the cables loop around... will I need another if I add pedals/cables etc.?.. .. I would appreciate any and all comments,ideas and technical insight.. This is an ODD but intriguing guitar.. They CAN be made to play well.. THATS for sure... I guess I'm just surprised that I already have a steel that sounds almost identical!....

If you know these guitars well, and don't mind a call from a mental case, I'd love to discuss set up on these steels with an "expert" thats been there.... bob

Ian Finlay · From: Kenton, UK

Drop me an email - I'll be happy to chat!

Ian

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Also, if anyone knows the scale length of Fender steels,and if there is a size/weight difference between the 400 (8string) and 800 (10 string).. thanks again! bob

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Bob,

You might like it set up (from high to low) F#, G#, E, B, G#, F#, E, B. (fwiw, my first 2 strings are G#, F# cuz I like the repeating pattern of two groups of 4).

I have a 4 pedal 400, and they are (from left to right) E's to F, A-pedal, B-pedal, E's to Eb.

Once that was set up, I adjusted the cables to ensure they weren't tangled, and to have a little slack, and it plays fine.
I replaced the springs on the E>Eb lowers with lighter guage springs, so P4 feels the same as the other pedals.

I use two feet on the pedals often, and it's not an issue.

Hold the E>Eb pedal down for B6th swing.

I'd be more apt to buy a D8 Fender than an S10, but that's just personal preference.

Have Fun with it!
Pete B.

ps
I like Fender Super Bullet strings because they have no wrappings and fit better through the changer finger cams.
I order single string sets from here: http://www.juststrings.com/purenickelfenderguitarsinglestrings.html

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 12 August 2005 at 11:29 AM.]

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

I found after experimenting around that the stock Fender A6 tuning and copedent works just fine and makes a TON of sense. I have a 6-pedal 400, and I do "two-foot" the pedals quite often. The tone of the 400 doesn't seem to need the volume pedal crutch as much as most E9 10 strings as far as I can tell. But as far as the copedent, if you mix a little country, some rock, some blues and whatever in your playing the stock setup is far better than a "compromised" E9 setup.

It's really not as limiting as some people think. With a little creative imagination you can do some pretty fun and amazing stuff on a stock-setup 400 - some folks just have closed minds about these as viable instruments. I'm finding I much prefer it to the E9...but it *does* depend on what you want to play. If your aim is to sound like the typical country steel player, the 400 will come up short. But if you don't care about cloning modern country, it's a great instrument.

And the tone just flat buries everything else IMO. Leo got it right with the later models.

BTW BOb - yes, the pully needs to be changed to add pedals to avoid binding and overlap, or so I've been told. Knees can be added (if somebody really felt them to be necessary) avoiding the pulley altogether, though. If mine wasn't in such near-mint shape, I might consider a knee or two...but I'm not drilling any holes in mine, it's too darned showroom -clean for a '63.

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

GREAT comments Pete,Jim.. I like this steel, but am thinking HARD about the refin 800.. Two knees that I can add myself. and I have a "real" E9 setup.. I am too "set in my ways" to change to the altered tunings like the E7 or A6 on my 400... I DO like the guitar, but using two feet and NO knees is an adjustment I am not sure I want to make...yet

!!... bob

[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 12 August 2005 at 02:00 PM.]

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Bob - shoot me an email later if you could. I'm curious about adding levers and have no clue about the fabrication....

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Check your mail Jim..

Larry Robbins · From: Fort Edward, New York

Bob my friend,
You seem to like this steel...Why not just hang on to it and play it once in a while when you get bored if nothing else? If it plays well and sounds good, what the heck? you cant have too many steels

Besides with them NEW SHO~BUD Super fingers you should have NO problem getting an old Bud to do just you want it to... and go ahead
look for that other Fender steel...you CAN do most of the work your self and while you are kind of "waiting to see" how your disabilities are going to afect the rest of your life, I say GO FOR IT and do all you can, while you can! Haveing a couple of different steels(With basically the same set up) would give you something to do in them long , cold, never ending Winter months that we get here in upstate NY.

------------------
73 PRO II, 79/80 PRO III
Steelkings,Fender guitars,Preston covers,
and Taylor(Tut that is)
Reso's
"Of all the things Ive lost in life, I miss my mind the most"

[This message was edited by Larry Robbins on 12 August 2005 at 02:39 PM.]

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Larry .. thanks for the very kind words.. My disability has been declared permanent partial by my surgeon,... 70% or some such nonsense, but I'm getting around very well these days [thank you Lord], and have so far been able to avoid surgery. I have had a lot of people pray for me and thats what I feel is the reason for a dramatic turnaround in the last few months..

ANYWAY,, I DO like this Fender.. really do, but I am SO attached to the chromatics and and the knee levers on "normal" steels,that I feel I WON"T play it in favor of my other steels... My old Willie keyless has been getting a LOT of "airtime" recently.

I may keep it, or may sell it and go for a Fender 800 (10 string]... Not sure yet... You can tell by now I change steels, guitars, and amps like most guys change thier drawers...My Carter is a lifetime keeper, the Willie too at this point.. everthing else is fair game....

Like I stated in my opening paragraph, I may be able to get a REFINISHED Fender 800, which I can add levers to with NO regrets.. I should have bought it when I had the chance... If its still around, I'm gonna buy it and sell this VERY nice 400... maybe....

... bob

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Bob, the earliest guitars (with the solid-rod bridge) had a 24 1/2" scale. In late '63, they went to a 23" scale on all their pedal guitars, including the PS-210. The big end-pulley should have enough sheaves to handle a few more pedals, should you decide to add them. You won't have to use the end-pulley for left-moving cable operated knee levers, only right-moving ones. I've seen a couple guitars with transfer bar yokes on the cables instead of small pulleys. It does help balance the pulls better. I added a knee lever to a friends' 400 one day. He had an extra cable, but he didn't have the small pulley. I made one out of some .062 steel, and used a nickel for the pulley. I drilled a hole in the nickel and turned a groove in it with a small file. When it was put together, it was almost identical to the stock pulleys! The lever itself was just a piece of 5/16" x 3/4" aluminum bar mounted on 2 "L" brackets.

These guitars are so simple that repairing them is a snap. In my many years playing the Fenders, I saw quite a few novel ideas used for mods and repairs, some good...some bad. Should you need any help, just e-mail me with your questions or problems.

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Thanks Donny. I may take you up on that... bob

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

When I bought my Fender 2000 it had one knee lever added using the last pully slot available. I installed a second lever using a small eyelet pully mounted to a L-bracket. It worked fine, but I learned that I should have installed a stop on both of the levers because without one, it puts too much strain on the changers. I had to have them taken apart and adjusted.

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Here's the workaround to allow double flattening or sharpening on a "1000"
NOT cables on the knee lever just rods with loops and the old Sho-Bud half-stop barrel.

and

Baz

------------------

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: