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Topic: C6: omit string 10, have both a high G and D |
Duane Reese
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Posted 3 Mar 2018 5:35 pm |
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Anyone ever done this?
For certain chords, especially dominant-7th derivatives, the 9th string is very necessary; but the 10th string? On pedal 5 (standard setup) there is some 9th chord stuff to be had using strings 9 and 10, but it seems you can get the same basic idea with the 7 and 8 pedals in a different place. Other than that, what you can make by raking from string 10 with pedals 5 and 6 down (I'm not going to try to name this chord out) seems to be possible by raking from string 9, with pedal 8 down and (if you have them) semitone raises on strings 3 and 4. Those are the main ones I can find.
Aside from that, what you still can't get without string 10 seems to be mostly unusable or rarely used chords, "boo-wah" movements, and 4th/5th double-stops that are so low..well, they're pretty boomy.
So...what if you just canned the 10th string and gave yourself both a high G and a D string with the extra slot? Naturally, some with poo-poo that idea for their own reasons, but I wonder if this wouldn't make more sense for the majority of double-neck players. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2018 6:10 pm
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I have been thinking about this very idea for a couple of weeks. I think it sounds reasonable.
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RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer |
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Duane Reese
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Posted 3 Mar 2018 6:18 pm
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Rick, you've been thinking about it because I have been telepathically beaming the idea to you...just like Buddy Emmons use to zap people in the eyeball from Nashville.  |
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Bill Cunningham
From:
Atlanta, Ga. USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2018 10:02 pm
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Interesting idea. Seems like it's personal preference. If the high G opens up the tuning to allows you to express yours ideas, go for it. Terry Crisp (and Buddy Emmons for a while I think) eliminated the bottom C and and inserted a D. High to low D,E,C,A,G,E,D,C,A,F.
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 5:59 am
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| Keeping the 10 string tuning and going to 12 string C6 with the original G on top and two chromatic strings on top is a good future option as well. It's almost instantly playable using your old grips and adds a lot of really useful chords and melodic possibilities. I use the low C string for a lot of guitar riffs and rhythm vamps so I would miss that greatly. |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 8:06 am
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| Watch some of Sez Adamson's videos and you can see the value of the 10th string! Jerry Byrd and Curley Chalker kept the 3rd on top favoring going for the bass side on CC's 10 string tuning. I find it remarkable that when Buddy Emmons changed the E9 to what we use today(chromatic strings and tonic 1/2 step raise on KL) everyone took it as the standard, but his improvements on the C6 are a bone on contention to many! |
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Duane Reese
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 9:38 am
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| Greg Cutshaw wrote: |
| Keeping the 10 string tuning and going to 12 string C6 with the original G on top and two chromatic strings on top is a good future option as well. It's almost instantly playable using your old grips and adds a lot of really useful chords and melodic possibilities. I use the low C string for a lot of guitar riffs and rhythm vamps so I would miss that greatly. |
I've had a couple of D-12 guitars throughout the years, one an MSA and one a p/p. they had tunings that used both option strings on top with an F thrown in there, which gives you F-D-G-E-C-A-G-E-C-A-F-C. That was a pretty comprehensive setup, indeed.
| John Swain wrote: |
| Watch some of Sez Adamson's videos and you can see the value of the 10th string! |
Just did รขโฌโ he's really good. If I did a lot of solo and jazz stuff that called for that low register to be heard, then yes, I wouldn't want to do without that low C; then again, if I were into that, I'd probably have a D-12. Extended C6 is nice, but extended E9 didn't do much for me, and (depending on muting skills and tuning) it adds more string noise.
Who was it that had a double-neck 10/11? Seems like I saw that on a JHC at one time. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 10:20 am
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I just raised the whole tuning a step to D6th. It cuts through the mix better, and the 10th string isn't so much in the bass player's wheelhouse. The highest string is F# with a pedal raising it to G.
The 10th string is D with P5 raising it to E. This 10-string range closely matches a standard guitar, making it easy to swap licks. Pedal 8 lowers the 10th string to B as expected, but I don't use that very often.
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-๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 5:29 pm
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| I have lost interest in the extended E9th tuning on a double neck guitar. It is great to have 11 or 12 strings on any single neck guitar be it a universal or extended E9th tuning. Raising the C6 neck to D6 with 12 strings and lowering the E9th tuning to D with 10 strings will be my next adventure. |
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Bill Cunningham
From:
Atlanta, Ga. USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2018 9:01 pm
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| John Swain wrote: |
| Watch some of Sez Adamson's videos and you can see the value of the 10th string! Jerry Byrd and Curley Chalker kept the 3rd on top favoring going for the bass side on CC's 10 string tuning. I find it remarkable that when Buddy Emmons changed the E9 to what we use today(chromatic strings and tonic 1/2 step raise on KL) everyone took it as the standard, but his improvements on the C6 are a bone on contention to many! |
I think it still comes down to what ideas and tunes do you want to play and what strings do you need to express your ideas. I remember reading where Buddy said he didn't really need the 10th string except to play Nightlife. OTOH, Sez makes great use of the 10th string in his chord melody solo tunes. I was talking with Sez in AZ a couple of years ago and, tongue in cheek, made the comment that maybe Buddy should have listened to Sez to learn to use the 10th string more. Sez's responded something along the lines of, given what Buddy played, Buddy probably DIDN'T need the 10th string so much. (I am paraphrasing here).
Johnny Cox has the ultimate C6 tuning, for himself. 12 strings with D and high G on top and Curley's 10 strings below it (E,C,A,G,E,C,A,F,D,A). There's a lot of Curly influence in what Johnny plays.
So I think it comes down to where do you live or want to live on the hobby neck, Duane? Want to play chord melodys like Sez? Better keep the C. Sometimes I wish I had a high G for Western swing but not badly enough to give up the D. etc.etc.etc. In the end, it's all a compromise and only you can determine what to compromise based on your needs.
Have fun!
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA |
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Duane Reese
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Posted 5 Mar 2018 8:35 pm
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| Bill Cunningham wrote: |
| I remember reading where Buddy said he didn't really need the 10th string except to play Nightlife. |
Oh, surely he was being modest.  Then again, if that is true, that would be one thing that he and I have in common รขโฌโ I don't remember using it for anything but Nightlife either.
Yeah, I think I'll give it a shot...course, I pretty much know what the result will be: one more string I'll probably use, one less string I probably won't. Shouldn't be too hard of a rejiggering รขโฌโ you just slide things over a little on the cross shafts, yank a couple of pulls out...no problem. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2018 8:41 pm
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I use my 10th string a lot when other players are soloing. I like to play repeating patterns on strings 7, 8, 9 and 10.
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-๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 10:57 am
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I have a 12 sting C6 with both the high G and re-entrant D, and from my experience I can tell you that the low C string (that can be raised to D or lowered to A) is WAY more valuable to me than a high G would be if I had to choose....even though I do like having them both. With a 12 string, I've had the rare opportunity to really see if I am able to get every thing I'd get without one or the other of the two top strings. What I've found is that with the D string on top, I'm able to get every thing that I'd get with the G...plus so much more... especially by knowing how to use Pedal 7 or a C-C# KL! I don't seem to be able to find half the stuff with just the G (like I had for my first 30+ years on steel), and then I'd have to "2 foot it" a lot more at that.
The out of sequence D on top was just another one of Buddy Emmons' genius ideas that should be fully studied! |
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Mike Vallandigham
From:
Martinez, CA
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 11:12 am
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When I played a 10 string, I'd just tune between the two if a song called for it.
Now I use a 12 string, so I get both. Plus an extra! |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 11:28 am
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Sometimes I'm tempted to do what Bobby Black does on his 11 string C6th lap steel. His top two strings are D and B, like the first two on E9th (F# and D#).
(At least, I think that's what he's tuned to now. Never can by sure with that guy.)
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-๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 2:10 pm
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That's what I have on the first two strings of my 12 string b0b... with the G on string 3. I got the idea from Maurice Anderson's non pedal tuning, but after hearing Bobby play at the SWSGA show in Mesa AZ this last January, I think I'll keep it there!  |
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