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Topic: copedent suggestions? |
Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 5:22 am |
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Here is my E9 copedent as I got it. The pedals match Jimmy Day's, and the knee levers match nothing I see on b0b's copedents page.
I just started this journey this week. Should I consider changing this to some more "normal" setup before I get too deep into this? I'm pretty good with machinery and not afraid to work with it.
thanks
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 5:40 am
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| It looks like a pretty standard set up. You need to realize that the function of the knee levers is related to the actual location of the levers. On your guitar, the left knee levers are just what you should expect for the day set up. You have the string 5 and 10 lowers on RKL, usually that will be on the vertical lever. But it doesn't matter, as long as you know what the lever does. Most E9th guitars have a lever that lowers 2 and 9, on one lever. You might consider changing your RKR to that. If it were my guitar, I'd put the 5-10 lowers on the vertical, lower 2 and 9 on RKR, and on RKL I would raise 1 and 2 and lower 6. But you really don't need to do all of this immediately, I would just put the 2 and 9 lowers on RKR and leave the rest alone for now. Later, you might want to change something else. For now, concentrate on learning to use what you have. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 5:42 am
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| Jeffrey--I will keep my personal preference out this completely and just say that everything looks fine to me. The left knee E raises and lowers (especially the raises) are in the proper position for the Day pedals. There is other stuff that is the subject of plenty of discussion but is not out of the mainstream. Play it! |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 8:01 am
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Thanks both of you.
I'm not for squat at using the raise lever, but this is all so new, I'll probably catch on.
I just didn't want to set myself up for a bunch of "unlearning."
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 8:18 am
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You certainly will catch on.
The short answer re: E raise --- combined with the A lever raising the B strings to C# you get a major triad inversion in between the open (no pedals) and pedals down (A + B) inversions. With these three triad positions you can always 'get there from here'. |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 8:33 am
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| Jon Light wrote: |
You certainly will catch on.
The short answer re: E raise --- combined with the A lever raising the B strings to C# you get a major triad inversion in between the open (no pedals) and pedals down (A + B) inversions. With these three triad positions you can always 'get there from here'. |
I was referring to the lever I have to "raise" with my left knee, not the one that raises my Es. It's harder than the Dickens for me to get my short leg to lift that lever.
I take your response to refer to my LKR which raises my E's, is that right?
I still don't quite understand that one either - I'm not sure when I'll need that half step raise, but it's slowly coming together.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 8:39 am
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Your RKR should not raise the 1st string to G while lowering the 2nd to D. Remove the 1st string change. You lose most of the D-lever licks if you don't have an F# on the 1st string. Putting the D and G changes on the same lever is not a good idea.
Most people lower their B strings on the vertical lever. You should swap LKV and RKL. You can get the G note that I told you to take off of RKR by feeling where the 2nd string raise to E kicks in.
I see how putting the E scale tone number next to each note probably helps you understand the tuning. On LKL, think of the notes as D# not Eb (scale tone 7, not b8 or b1).
Maybe my 'Basic Theory of the E9th' page would be helpful: b0b.com/wp/?page_id=960.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 8:42 am
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Oops, sorry. Yes, the E>F raise on LKR. It has become a fundamental position for E9 playing.
The vertical lever, as it is assigned on your guitar, is more of a lick lever than a fundamental part of your setup. Verticals can be difficult to set up -- ideally you want it almost touching your leg but not so close that it will be accidentally hit. Its ideal (IMO) use is with the pedals down so that you have something to push against. I'm not very fond of this part of your setup, having that change on the vert. but I wouldn't worry about it. You can ignore it without losing out on much at all for now. |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 9:33 am
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| Jon Light wrote: |
Oops, sorry. Yes, the E>F raise on LKR. It has become a fundamental position for E9 playing.
The vertical lever, as it is assigned on your guitar, is more of a lick lever than a fundamental part of your setup. Verticals can be difficult to set up -- ideally you want it almost touching your leg but not so close that it will be accidentally hit. Its ideal (IMO) use is with the pedals down so that you have something to push against. I'm not very fond of this part of your setup, having that change on the vert. but I wouldn't worry about it. You can ignore it without losing out on much at all for now. |
Good. Because I mostly am ignoring it. I have to pull my leg back from the pedals to lift and, and I'm already thinking, Nah. Later maybe.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Joseph Carlson
From:
Grass Valley, California, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 9:44 am
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The whole Emmons vs. Day pedal setup is sort of like Ford or Chevy, Coke or Pepsi, Windows or Mac - no right answer, just personal preference. (Chevy, Coke, and Windows in my case!)
I would suggest at some point down the road you sit behind a steel with the Emmons setup and see if that works better or worse for you than the Day setup.
Similar to the other thread about using picks, the majority use the Emmons setup, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's right for everyone.
Regards,
Joe |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 9:52 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| Your RKR should not raise the 1st string to G while lowering the 2nd to D. Remove the 1st string change. You lose most of the D-lever licks if you don't have an F# on the 1st string. Putting the D and G changes on the same lever is not a good idea. |
Should I leave the other G raise on that lever alone?
| Quote: |
| Most people lower their B strings on the vertical lever. You should swap LKV and RKL. You can get the G note that I told you to take off of RKR by feeling where the 2nd string raise to E kicks in. |
Is the leg lift lever adjustable in distance from the floor? I can barely use mine at all.
| Quote: |
| I see how putting the E scale tone number next to each note probably helps you understand the tuning. On LKL, think of the notes as D# not Eb (scale tone 7, not b8 or b1). |
Yes, I think in scale degree. Using note letter names quickly leaves me confused.
Yup. It did. 
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 10:22 am
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| Jeffrey McFadden wrote: |
| Should I leave the other G raise on that lever alone? |
A separate "G" lever is typically the 4th lever. It has evolved in recent years something like this:
| Tab: |
'G' lever
original modern
F# +G +G/G#
D# +E
G#
E
B
G# -G/F#
F# +G or +G/G#
... |
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| Is the leg lift lever adjustable in distance from the floor? I can barely use mine at all. |
My Carter has an adjustment for that.
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| Yes, I think in scale degree. Using note letter names quickly leaves me confused. |
I think most steel players think that way.  Few of us know the names of the notes we are playing, but we usually know where they are in the scale.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 11:07 am Suggested Copedent
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I would suggest that you look into Tommy White's copedent, I think you are already close to that setup.. It's obviously a good one & is ergonomically correct
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Steel Guitar players are members of a Special Family |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 3:32 pm
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The vertical lever on a Carter is indeed adjustable. Sometimes not enough though. Go to a hardware store and buy a longer set screw that will lower it more. That may put the lever to where you can't close the case lid. In that case (no pun intended), you can just loosen the set screw to where you can close it. Or move the lever backwards out of the way. I don't recommend that though. Too many times and the roll pin holding the lever may loosen to where the knee lever won't stay up in position. On the knee lever adjustment screws, I don't put the locking nut on. This allows me to turn the screw without loosening the nut. Sometimes you can gain enough adjustment by just removing the nut.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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