| Author |
Topic: Emmons Parts? |
Steve Salvi
From:
S.A., Australia
|
Posted 5 Feb 2018 10:41 pm |
|
Howdy,
A customer has brought in an old Emmons PP (1972) and it has these weird little clips hanging the rods off the changer. Some of them are broken and I haven't even started looking at it yet.... I did a bit of googling and looking around at parts suppliers but I can't actually find any? Does anyone know where I can find a few bits for this unit?
Thanks in advance!
Cheers Steve
_________________
GFI Ultra S10PU Show Pro Lloyd Green.
Fender DeVille 410 (modded)
72 Strat, Custom Baritone, 50's Maton F hole, DeGruchy D2..
Too many to list..happens when you have a shop! |
|
|
 |
Mike Scaggs
From:
Nashville, TN
|
Posted 6 Feb 2018 1:29 am
|
|
You can make those yourself. Go to the local hardware store and get some landscaping flags. The wire they use works quite well. Use another one you have as a template.
_________________
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you
Zum double Hybrid 8x9, 64 Twin (JBLs), p2pAmps Bad-Dawg, p2pAmps Tremendous Reverb, Visit my website www.p2pamps.com |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 6 Feb 2018 8:56 am
|
|
Mike is spot on, that's what I do. 
Erv |
|
|
|
Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 6 Feb 2018 11:36 am
|
|
If you don’t know what those hooks are, I’d be very cautious taking a push pull apart.
_________________
Mostly Pre-1970 guitars. |
|
|
|
Tyler Hall
From:
Mt. Juliet, TN
|
|
|
|
Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
|
Posted 7 Feb 2018 5:57 am
|
|
Take lots and lots of pictures before, and during teardown, and keep everything as straight and in line as possible when assembling.
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
|
|
|
Steve Salvi
From:
S.A., Australia
|
Posted 7 Feb 2018 9:29 pm
|
|
Thanks everyone. Here's a pic of the clips. They're a bit odd. I may just make some new rods and put a threaded insert there. Anyone done anything like that before? It's pretty flimsy! Someone's put electrical ties on there at some point to keep them closed
Plus, someones used some pretty flimsy wire in there that does *nothing* but move around when it's actuated. Lol.
I'm wondering if I've under-quoted
Anyways, I guess I'll just start and see where it ends up. Apparently this unit was bought a year ago from someone well known on here?
Cheers!
Steve.
_________________
GFI Ultra S10PU Show Pro Lloyd Green.
Fender DeVille 410 (modded)
72 Strat, Custom Baritone, 50's Maton F hole, DeGruchy D2..
Too many to list..happens when you have a shop!
Last edited by Steve Salvi on 7 Feb 2018 9:47 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
Steve Salvi
From:
S.A., Australia
|
Posted 7 Feb 2018 9:37 pm
|
|
Here's a chassis shot. The levers a bit munted as well. It's such an unhappy guitar!
_________________
GFI Ultra S10PU Show Pro Lloyd Green.
Fender DeVille 410 (modded)
72 Strat, Custom Baritone, 50's Maton F hole, DeGruchy D2..
Too many to list..happens when you have a shop! |
|
|
|
Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
|
Posted 8 Feb 2018 5:29 am
|
|
That is totally different from any PP that I've ever seen, and I will not comment till someone that really knows these guitars comments on the mods.
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 8 Feb 2018 8:57 am
|
|
You don't have an Emmons.  |
|
|
|
Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
|
Posted 8 Feb 2018 9:57 am
|
|
What Erv said above.
You may have an Emmons cabinet and changer, but that's about where the mechanicals end and the kluge begins.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
|
|
|
Steve Salvi
From:
S.A., Australia
|
Posted 8 Feb 2018 3:47 pm
|
|
Uh oh!
_________________
GFI Ultra S10PU Show Pro Lloyd Green.
Fender DeVille 410 (modded)
72 Strat, Custom Baritone, 50's Maton F hole, DeGruchy D2..
Too many to list..happens when you have a shop! |
|
|
|
Steve Salvi
From:
S.A., Australia
|
Posted 8 Feb 2018 4:12 pm
|
|
Yeah, funny how our brains just go with the flow. He told me Emmons, I booked it in as Emmons, but I haven't lifted it out of the case yet. Now that I actually look, the spacers between the changes are hex nuts! Look!! and the rod holding the fingers is as bent as parliament. Gaah! Oh well, he said just do what I think is necessary, I'll just see what all the pedals and levers do and take it from there. There's an engineering workshop next door....I'll see how I go.
Thanks for you're observations!
Cheers
Steve
_________________
GFI Ultra S10PU Show Pro Lloyd Green.
Fender DeVille 410 (modded)
72 Strat, Custom Baritone, 50's Maton F hole, DeGruchy D2..
Too many to list..happens when you have a shop! |
|
|
|
Tim Russell
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
|
Posted 8 Feb 2018 4:23 pm
|
|
The clips with the green ties around them look like model airplane clevises, used for throttle linkage, rudder/elevator rods, etc. Some of the clevises come threaded, some solder on. If you need to replace those, you could take one to a local hobby shop & show the guy what you have, to match it up.
_________________
Sierra Crown D-10 |
|
|
|
Steve Salvi
From:
S.A., Australia
|
Posted 8 Feb 2018 4:29 pm
|
|
| Tim Russell wrote: |
| The clips with the green ties around them look like model airplane clevises, used for throttle linkage, rudder/elevator rods, etc. Some of the clevises come threaded, some solder on. If you need to replace those, you could take one to a local hobby shop & show the guy what you have, to match it up. |
Hey thankyou, that's good info..
I'm not so sure how excited I am about this job anymore...
I'm thinking of measuring the rods up and just making new ones with a hook...Not sure yet. I'll keep you posted!
_________________
GFI Ultra S10PU Show Pro Lloyd Green.
Fender DeVille 410 (modded)
72 Strat, Custom Baritone, 50's Maton F hole, DeGruchy D2..
Too many to list..happens when you have a shop! |
|
|
|
Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
|
Posted 8 Feb 2018 4:40 pm
|
|
Not Emmons for sure.
I once had an 84 Emmons D-10 push pull that didn't have any those wire hooks. Someone had gone to a smaller rod, enlarged the holes on changer fingers a tad to accommodate rods, put a unique little bend on rods that would hold in fingers. The rods had to be flattened to fit between finger and changer housing. The guitar played like a dream and stayed in tune. No slop in that guitar. Never did understand why Emmons company made those highly machined parts under guitar and then put those ugly wire hooks on them. I know, they work great, lol. I later returned the guitar to factory standards and sold it to get a bolt on push pull.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
|
|
|
Peter Leavenworth
From:
Madbury, New Hampshire, USA
|
Posted 9 Feb 2018 4:23 am
|
|
Hey Steve,
Completely different topic: I see you use a Fender DeVille 410, and I have one in my stable of amps. I love how is sounds but it's just too heavy to carry around. How is yours modded?
_________________
2008 Zum D-10, 1996 Mullens PRP D-10, 1974 Emmons D-10, 1976 Emmons D-10, early 70s Emmons GS-10, Milkman Sideman head w/Telonics 15" speaker, 1966 Fender Super Reverb, 1970 Fender Dual Showman head, Wechter/Scheerhorn and Beard Dobros, 1962 Supro lap steels, Gibson 1939 RB-11 banjo, Gibson 1978 RB-250
banjo......and way too much more |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 9 Feb 2018 9:18 am
|
|
On a push/pull you cannot have a solid connection between the pull rod and the changer finger.
Not if you want to raise and lower the same string, that is.
You need to have some slack in the pull rod or the lower will NOT work and that is accomplished with that piece of wire.
Sorry, but it's just the nature of the beast.
Erv |
|
|
|
Mike Scaggs
From:
Nashville, TN
|
Posted 9 Feb 2018 11:17 am
|
|
OUCH! Maybe you can show the group here pictures of the top of the guitar. I am sorry to say along with the rest that you do not have a push pull sir or any kind of Emmons for that matter.
Curious minds are now wondering
_________________
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you
Zum double Hybrid 8x9, 64 Twin (JBLs), p2pAmps Bad-Dawg, p2pAmps Tremendous Reverb, Visit my website www.p2pamps.com |
|
|
|
Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
|
Posted 9 Feb 2018 12:58 pm
|
|
| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
On a push/pull you cannot have a solid connection between the pull rod and the changer finger.
Not if you want to raise and lower the same string, that is.
You need to have some slack in the pull rod or the lower will NOT work and that is accomplished with that piece of wire.
Sorry, but it's just the nature of the beast.
Erv |
No Erv, it worked just fine. The little bend that was in the solid rods was long enough to allow the slack needed to lower and raise same string. I would not reccomend this type drastic change to a push pull but it did work fine and was easy to play and really felt positive. The only downside I saw was that the side of the solid rod had to be flattened enough to go between changer finger and the other part of changer which I would think would weaken the rods. This was done by grinding it off. Made them pretty thin but I never had a minutes trouble with it and played it a long time. I'm never going to do that to one but this one was that way when I got it.
Junior Knight had a push pull that Gary Hogue had modified and put nylon tuners on it just like an all pull. The end plate was machined out so you could get to nylon tuners.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
|
|
|
Steve Salvi
From:
S.A., Australia
|
Posted 9 Feb 2018 4:36 pm
|
|
| Peter Leavenworth wrote: |
Hey Steve,
Completely different topic: I see you use a Fender DeVille 410, and I have one in my stable of amps. I love how is sounds but it's just too heavy to carry around. How is yours modded? |
https://www.fromelelectronics.com/collections/amp-mod-kits/products/hrdv-mods
Hey Peter, I just got my amp guy put this kit through my Deville 410 out of curiosity more than anything. I think it's made it a better guitar amp than a steel amp though..It's certainly got way more character now. I'm not a super clean steel player as I like a little hair on the string. I play mostly Alt. country and country rock and bluesy singer/songwriter stuff. Not to say the amp isn't clean, I just run a volume in the FX loop so I can run the preamp hotter in clean mode. (when the power stage is wide open). That works for me.
The mods are reversible. You could also email Fromel and ask.
The amp is super heavy, i agree. So I went ahead and ordered a Quilter head in the hope of making a light weight rig with a single Neo 12 in a Pauwlonia box. Unfortunately, the older I get, and the older my 2 kids get, time has begun dilating. Must see if that's in Einsteins theory somewhere....
_________________
GFI Ultra S10PU Show Pro Lloyd Green.
Fender DeVille 410 (modded)
72 Strat, Custom Baritone, 50's Maton F hole, DeGruchy D2..
Too many to list..happens when you have a shop! |
|
|
|
Steve Salvi
From:
S.A., Australia
|
Posted 9 Feb 2018 5:25 pm
|
|
| Mike Scaggs wrote: |
OUCH! Maybe you can show the group here pictures of the top of the guitar. I am sorry to say along with the rest that you do not have a push pull sir or any kind of Emmons for that matter.
Curious minds are now wondering |
I think you are correct! It doesn't even have Emmons written on it :/
I wish I didn't just take the guys word for it when he booked it in. 1972 Emmons PP. No worries. Book it in. He insisted on paying a deposit and has made a few part payments. My initial plan was to charge less and take my time to learn about the PP system. Now that I've finally got it out to do the job I'v discovered it's a total dogs breakfast. Can you believe I'm the only steel 'repairer' in the state? I don't even know of one in Melbourne (500 miles away) our closest neighbour.
I'll either have to refund him, or see if he can swallow his mis-purchase and pay for the extra. To be honest. I feel a bit in over my head. Not in terms of working out the mechanism, but in terms of making any parts to suit.I'm not a machinist, just happy to fix things.
Look at the changer finger rod (?)! (The photo with the ruler) It's a Banana!
Thoughts?
_________________
GFI Ultra S10PU Show Pro Lloyd Green.
Fender DeVille 410 (modded)
72 Strat, Custom Baritone, 50's Maton F hole, DeGruchy D2..
Too many to list..happens when you have a shop! |
|
|
|
Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
|
Posted 9 Feb 2018 8:35 pm
|
|
It's an Emmons knock-off, based very roughly on the Emmons design and not that skilled of one I'm afraid. But I have the feeling you're aware of that now.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
|
|
|
Peter Leavenworth
From:
Madbury, New Hampshire, USA
|
Posted 11 Feb 2018 5:57 am
|
|
Thanks for the amp info, Steve, I hate to tell you that the equipment weight/lack of free time effect isn't going to get any better! Good luck with your interesting steel guitar,
Peter
_________________
2008 Zum D-10, 1996 Mullens PRP D-10, 1974 Emmons D-10, 1976 Emmons D-10, early 70s Emmons GS-10, Milkman Sideman head w/Telonics 15" speaker, 1966 Fender Super Reverb, 1970 Fender Dual Showman head, Wechter/Scheerhorn and Beard Dobros, 1962 Supro lap steels, Gibson 1939 RB-11 banjo, Gibson 1978 RB-250
banjo......and way too much more |
|
|
|
Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
|
Posted 11 Feb 2018 8:56 am
|
|
"A total dog's breakfast." 
I'd not heard that one before! 
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
|
|
|
