| Where do you have the C to B change? |
| LKL |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
| LKR |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
| RKL |
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68% |
[ 34 ] |
| RKR |
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18% |
[ 9 ] |
| other |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| I don't have that change |
|
4% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 50 |
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| Author |
Topic: C6th Players Only: C to B lever |
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Jan 2018 11:29 pm |
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In Winnie Winston's book, it almost everyone has the C to B change on RKR. Buddy Emmons is the Big Exception with it on RKL.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 1:12 am
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I have it on RKR on two guitars. If I recall on all of my stock Sho Buds it was on RKR. All of the Carter D10's I owned had it on RKR as well.
Lets also not forget that Buddy was one of the few that used TWO feet for C6. Trying to figure out why hew did things is liking exploring E = MC Squared and how that was discovered in the first place . 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 5:26 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
| Buddy was one of the few that used two feet for C6. |
How much C6 can you play with only one? How do you do 5 & 7 together? I have P6 on a lever and 5 & 7 next to each other, but most people don't.  And how do you alternate 5 & 8? Unless 8 is to the left of 5, in which case how do you do 7 & 8? Just wondering.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 6:01 am
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| Ian, I never play C6 with two feet! And I play it all the time. On a D10,pedal 5 + B-kl + 1st string D yields the 13th chord. 5 to 8 jump is pretty easy with practice. My C6 is setup like Buck Reid's and I've seen him play all his C6 with one foot. I understand this might not work on a uni 12. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 6:44 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| Tony Prior wrote: |
| Buddy was one of the few that used two feet for C6. |
How much C6 can you play with only one? How do you do 5 & 7 together? I have P6 on a lever and 5 & 7 next to each other, but most people don't. And how do you alternate 5 & 8? Unless 8 is to the left of 5, in which case how do you do 7 & 8? Just wondering. |
Around 45 years ago (1973, as I recall) I put P5 on a knee lever. That ended about 90% of that two-footin' stuff I was doing.  |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 8:22 am
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I have that on my RKL (Like Buddy). My 71 PP Emmons came with that on the RKL and when I ordered the Franklin I had it put on the same RKL. Mr Franklin (Sr) told me that was the best place for it.
I have the C6th 2nd string (E) 1/2 tone lower on the RKR. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 8:33 am
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| RKL here. It's more comfortable for me there. I have C to C+ on RKR...both same as Emmons. I have boo-wah on P4 but I don't see that either interferes with two footing. I'm used to that. |
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Ron Funk
From:
Ballwin, Missouri
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 9:28 am
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A reliable source told me BE arranged his C6th levers on 3rd and 4th strings so that
Lowers move Left
Raises move Right
Easy to remember |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 10:10 am
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I started on C6th much later than E9. So, when I chose the primary pulls, I did what I could to replicate my E9 (Day set-up) knees. That meant lowering the C to B to the left.
Then I bought Emmons' 'Basic C6th' book and was happy to see that, by chance, I'd copied the Maestro's set-up.
I like (on C6th) lowering the C on C/K/L (centre) and raising it C/K/R - the musical functions of those pulls are the same as my L/K/L and L/K/R on E9th and that was a big help to me early on.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 12:33 pm
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All Sho~bud's from "The Professional" on....had standard high C to B on RKL(unless and very rare, the customer, custom ordering it differently).....BUT...here's a cool thing...Previous to the Professional...if it was a 9 pedal D-10...the 9th pedal was the high C to B(fingertips and Perms)...ah...ha.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 1:10 pm
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This is interesting. I had always assumed that, since most of the pros in Winnie's book had it on RKR, the trend would be the same today. Not so. The Big E's influence was HUGE.
To me, RKL makes sense because that's also where I lower my E's on E9th (for the past 20 years, anyway). It's become an automatic reflex, like ABC pedals - I don't even think about it.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 1:22 pm
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Remember, b0b, that the farther back in time you go, the fewer knee-levers were standard fitments. Indeed, the earliest set-ups only had that RK lowering the C and nothing else. '5 and 1' was common on a C6-only guitar and '8 and 4' the norm for a D-10.
I didn't come to C6th until 2000 and I ordered my then-new Emmons with central-mounted knees for C6 only which, by that date, was, of course, common.
So, although I agree that his influence was enormous (who can argue?), I think the C-lower was once the only KL on most C necks.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 1:38 pm
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I was always under the impression that the standard 2 levers on the Professional and Pro 2 models were RKL and LKL because they required fewer parts and quicker installation than right-moving levers.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 1:40 pm
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Herb,
When do you think centrally-mounted knee-levers first started appearing?
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 1:42 pm
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I had mine installed on my 1970 Professional when I had the undercarriage replaced in 1976 by Duane and Paul at Music City Mfg.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Franklin
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 1:53 pm
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| ....RKL is where most Sho-Bud players and during that era they sold a lot of guitars. I don't believe that decision had anything to do with Buddy's placement...It was more of a mechanical thing to keep levers with shorter travel and easy to activate...Sho Bud's shipped with the E's lowering on the same lever RKL... |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 4:37 pm
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Oops, I wish it was possible to edit my vote. Acting too hastily, I clicked on LKR when I meant RKL. 
As of now, there's only one vote (mine)for LKR. So it should be ignored! And percentages adjusted accordingly. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 31 Jan 2018 11:48 am
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| Franklin wrote: |
| ....RKL is where most Sho-Bud players and during that era they sold a lot of guitars. I don't believe that decision had anything to do with Buddy's placement...It was more of a mechanical thing to keep levers with shorter travel and easy to activate...Sho Bud's shipped with the E's lowering on the same lever RKL... |
Paul, now that is interesting. I purchased two new D10 Sho Buds way back ( not at the same time, my car was too small ) both were 8 + 4, both had E's on the left knee and the C6 , C to B was on the RKR. Professional and a Pro III, early and mid 70's, the Pro III was the 2-whole puller guitar. Plus as mentioned above, that C to B was the only C6 lever on both of those Steels.
I recently acquired yet another Pro III and it was set up the same way. E's on left knee and C to B on the RKR. I can only guess that it was a factory setup but there were no extra screw holes anywhere.
Certainly though from a building point of view, C to B would be better off on the RKL for the reasons you stated above.
Regarding the discussion about playing C6th with two feet, I am not proficient enough to respond. I've watched countless excellent players use one foot and not so many use two feet. Two feet would be great once you get past the volume pedal !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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