U-12 Pedal 4 [thinking of changing]

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Even tho I play a U-12, I'm predominantly an E9th player. My 4th pedal is the "doo-wop",
thinking B6th [C6th]>Strings are 9B-C; 11E-D#; 12B-G#.
Even when I play some things on the '6th' side, I hardly ever use the doo-wop pedal.

So I'm thinking I might get more use from it by changing it to the Paul Franklin 4th pedal for E9th > 5B-A; 6G#-F#; 10B-A.

Isn't it kind of common knowledge that the 'doo-wop' pedal doesn't get much use even for the guys who are really into the 6th tuning.

What are some your thoughts on this?

Thanks all...

Chip

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 19 July 2005 at 01:16 PM.]

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 19 July 2005 at 01:17 PM.]

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Chip, The 6th tunings Boo-Wha pedal is analogous to the E9 tunings F lever. Some guys play E9th without an F lever (David Wright comes to mind).
Just make a note of where the rod settings are (in case you want to change it back), and make the change.
You should have at least 3 rods available, so maybe just lower strings 5 and 6 a whole tone (for starters).
Unless you have a steel that doesn't do whole tone lowers well, or is a hard to do copedant changes on, I'd say go for it.
The first rule of "Universal" is, there are no rules!

Buck Dilly · From: Branchville, NJ, USA * R.I.P.

wouldn't leave the house without a boo wah pedal.

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Thanks Pete and Buck.

Pete, I think I will it give it shot. My steel is a Williams, and I have moved things around in the past, fairly easy.

Buck, as I mentioned, I don't play a heck of a lot of exact 6th style. I actually play it like one tuning, instead of a definite split.

David Doggett · Posted 20 Jul 2005 6:12 am

On C6, if you drop back two frets and hit the boo-wah, you get V7. There are so many other ways to get that on a uni that the boo-wah is not as essential on a uni. But that lowest string dropping down three half-steps is a characteristic sound of some 6th neck licks.

I think Chip's question is not, "How useful is the boo-wah?" but is, "If you had to get rid of one of the traditional C6 pedals, which one would it be, and would it be the boo-wah?" Forget about pedal 4, it's already gone on most unis, and pedal 6 is also gone, but on a lever. That leaves pedals 5, 7 and 8 to choose from.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 20 July 2005 at 07:18 AM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I don't think you would need the low B to A change of the Franklin pedal on a U-12. You already have a low A on the 10th string G# with your 2nd pedal.

I always figured that Paul added that change to extend the low range of the 10 string neck, something that's totally unnecessary on a 12 string. On the U-12, you already have that big, low A6th tuning when you press the first two pedals.

I'm not sure why you want the 'Franklin pedal', but I think that part of the standard rationale for it is gone if you play a U-12. Also consider the fact that Paul doesn't have a pedal to raise strings 5 and 6 a whole tone like you do (P6 on C6th). In theory, some of the 'Franklin pedal' licks can be played two frets lower by releasing P6 instead of engaging the Franklin P4.

Lastly, I wonder if you would use the 'boo-wah' more if it also raised your B to C (or B#, for you theory purists). I know it's a radical suggestion, but I think you'd come to understand it better if you heard what it implies in the higher octave. Jazz players like to alter the notes of the high octave to exploit the dissonance against the chord's foundation. It's really still a dominant 7th chord at heart though. Adding a half step raise to the high B might help you understand how the pedal is used.

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

WOW!
Thanks b0b and David D.

I'm just getting in now, and I'm reading your posts.

I need more time to assimilate this.

No response tonight: too tired: thanks fellas.

Chip

John Ummel · From: Arlington, WA.

I think you need the "boo-WA" pedal to play "Bootheel Drag" correctly?

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I disagree with b0b's rationale on the 'Franklin changes' on a U-12. The point of having these changes together (either on a single pedal or a pedal/lever or lever/lever combination) is to lower those strings while other strings (most notably the tonic E) are not changed. (note: it is also important to be able to lower the E's to D# to get the full benefit of the 'Franklin changes')

I don't consider the 'Franklin pedal' necessary, but I DO consider G# to F# necessary. I think the best of both worlds, on a U-12, is to lower 6 and 10 from G# to F# on a lever and 5 and 9 from B to A on a pedal (or another lever if available).

Just my take on it. I use the lower voiced changes -- both the F# on 10 and the A on 9 -- pretty often -- along with the 8th string at E or D#. If you play a U-12 as an expanded E9 you'll find ways to play licks in both octaves.

And, no, the fact that the std U-12 copedent includes a whole tone RAISE on 5 and 6 does not make the Franklin changes unnecessary, for the same reason I cited above for the reasons mentioned in the first paragraph above. You need to have G# to F# and B to A while the 4th/8th strings are at their natural E pitch or lowered to D#.

Now back to the ORIGINAL original idea:
I wouldn't ditch the 7+9 (boo wah) pedal for love nor money. But that's just me.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Thanks John and Larry, too, for your input.

I don't know, now. It's a bit confusing. All opinions here all seem so valid. Maybe I'll just leave well enuff alone.

Actually my 1st pedal raises 5 and 9 B-C# and lowers 12 B-A. My doo-wop pedal used to be the 8th pedal, but I think I heard it in a Jeff Neuman course that it makes more sense to move the doo-wop to pedal 4, so as to be next to pedal 5 [7F#-F; 11E-F; 12B-C#].
So I did this. Pedal 8 raise 6 and 10 G# to
A#. I have a Herby Wallace C6th course where he uses pedal 8 in "Misty". That would be a flatted 5th in E, right? It's a nice sounding chord open.

I don't know if this is hijacking my own post, but I also have a LKV that drops 3 and
5 G#-G. I'm also thinking of changing it around and maybe trying a 7F#-G# change, also another PF move [as well as others, too, I guess].

What do you guys think about this? I've had this G#-G change in the past , on other steels, but I never used it too much. I just found minor chords in other places, with other pedals and knees.

I appreciate everyones' inputs. Keep em' coming. Thanks

Chip

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 21 July 2005 at 01:48 PM.]

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I think you can get away without the BooWah pedal and I've had it off my guitar for a couple of years now but I'm in the process of having my guitar rebuilt and it's going back on. The main reason is for the solo in "Nightlife" and also I like to fool around with fingerstyle guitar things and it's essential for "Alabama Jubilee" for one. If you need another floor pedal for the Franklin thing you can always drop the pedal that lowers your 8th string a whole tone and brings your Eb back to E. I call it the IV7 pedal or "four/seventh" pedal. You can put the 8th string lower to D on the same knee lever that lowers your 2nd string and get the same effect and then you'll have a spare pedal to use for the Franklin. I did this a long time ago but I moved my A, B, & C pedals over one slot and added the Tom Brumley pedal in the 1st slot which raises the 7th string F# to G# which I use a lot. Have a good 'un...JH in Va.

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It's all on 12, who needs 20!

[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 22 July 2005 at 10:05 AM.]

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Yeah Jerry,

I think I'll just leave everything as it is, except I'm gonna put your Tom Brumley move on my LKV [7F#-G#]. I've been mulling over all the pros & cons for the past couple days.

I happen to love "Alabama Jubillee", too, so I better keep the doo-wop.

Thanks for your insight.

Chip

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