Joaquin and Django

Guy Cundell · From: More idle ramblings from South Australia

It is well known that Joaquin Murphey initially learnt Hawaiian style and could imitate Hawaiian masters impeccably. His interest in horn players is also documented in Kenneth Raineyâ€™s article in the Journal of Country Music. http://tangleweed.org/blog/uploads/earlJoaquinMurphey_jcm.pdf

Rainey also states that he was â€œcopying solos by great jazz artists on the steel guitar.â€ Here is a wonderful example of Joaquin quoting Django Reinhardt. This sound file consists of the opening phrases of Djangoâ€™s Honeysuckle Rose recorded in 1938, followed by Joaquinâ€™s quote in his recording with the Plainsmen from 1946.

https://soundcloud.com/guy-cundell/honeysuckle-rose-joaquin-quotes-django

Does anyone have a discography of Murpheyâ€™s performances?

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Very cool comparison, Guy.
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · From: Quebec, Canada

Very nice! I should try to do that as an exercise!

The more interesting part of the Djando solo to me is the from 0:14 to 0:17, Joaquin do it very well to from 0:36 to 0:39.

Anybody can help me about the thinking and theory about this a little dissonant run?

Mitch Drumm · From: Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake

Guy Cundell · From: More idle ramblings from South Australia

Sweet, Andy. Very useful but unfortunately it's not the same solo. Reinhardt recorded Honeysuckle Rose seven times according to this online discography so that must be one of the others.
http://djangopedia.com/wiki/index.php?title=Django%27s_Full_Discography

Sebastien, the technique being used in the second phrase is basically a segmented chromatic scale. This is one way it could be played. I haven't listened really hard to Joaquin's version. This chart is Django's line, set for C6th. Maybe Mike Neer could correct it. Anyway, the technique is understandable.

Mitch, that is outstanding. I had an inkling you might have this together. The 1946 date that I quoted above was taken from an earlier Forum post of yours. It would be great to turn this into a more complete discography in the style of the Django one quoted above. It would need some more detail, dates, matricies etc. What you have posted is really useful in itself. But a complete discography, published here and maybe elsewhere, would be a great tribute to Joaquin and of immeasurable help to all who wish to study his music.

Guy Cundell · From: More idle ramblings from South Australia

Mitch, it would be really great to get your data into a spreadsheet with fields for song title, recording date and headline artist as it would useful to order the titles both alphabetically and chronologically. I haven't seen this done but I guess it is possible. I am no spreadsheet expert but I wonder how easily the data could be entered. Probably not without much effort, I suspect. Also I wonder how a field for chronology would cope with 'circa 1942' or 'late 1948 or early 1943'.

It is a project I would be happy to put time towards.

Any thoughts?

Mitch Drumm · From: Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake

Guy:

Check your private mail in about 10 minutes.

Mark Roeder · From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA

Thanks Mitch

BTW I play with a gypsy jazz guitarist and he notices the Django references in alot of Murpheys phases, sometimes a complete solo......
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Gary Leggett · From: Space Coast, FL

Hi,

That's quite the list of Joaquin Murphey, I'm new to the forum and probably like a lot of other people, I was blown away when I heard Murphey's playing.

I know this is an old thread but thought I would ask, how would someone go about locating a few of the mp3's in that list?

Thanks!
Gary

Mark Roeder · From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA

I have bought the coast recordings of Andy Parker and the Plainsmen on the internet. They show up from time to time

I also got some that were posted by a forum member for free some years ago, I don't remember who though
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Mark Roeder · From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA

Looks like bear family recordings has the Vol 2
Andy Parker
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Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Here is your spreadsheet

https://thisisglobal-my.sharepoint.com/personal/stefan_robertson_global_com/_layouts/15/guestaccess.aspx?docid=00578599f3e8d4cdfa2a042e8263ee2a0&authkey=AZxN_ozTnqLMgFwtFlx5HNI&expiration=2018-01-24T00%3A00%3A00.000Z&e=oVdVXb
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · From: Quebec, Canada

Mark Roeder · From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA

Also, the Tex Williams stuff is easy to find out there
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Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Be sure to check out Chris Clem's collection on YouTube. He's generously uploaded lots of terrific Joaquin cuts, many with extraordinary good sound quality for material this old.

For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_a7IrsaZWY

There are a number of apps like KeepVid that allow you to download and save YouTube content. So if you want 'em, grab 'em while they are freely available.
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David Matzenik · From: Cairns, on the Coral Sea

How do you suppose he was blocking the melody notes in Honeysuckle Rose?
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Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

David, there are some first hand observations in this thread from 2009 (though most of the links are long dead). https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=150023&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25&sid=811e1da83244a3530c56683756360565
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Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

Great thread Andy.
Thanks for the link. Really enjoyed reading it from beginning to end so much that I copied it for my files. Sure I'll want to read it again.
What an incredible man he was and what a sad ending....
Best wishes,
Andy
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Mike Neer · From: NJ

Mike Neer · From: NJ

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Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

Mike you just about got it now.
I think if I practice that for about a year I'll be able to get it at about half that speed. Whoa!

Joaquin sure has a way of separating the men from the boys in this game!
Best wishes,
Andy
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Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.

Guy Cundell · From: More idle ramblings from South Australia

Thanks, Mike. Thatâ€™s great and makes a lot of sense. There are some lightning position shifts! I think the intonation in bar 11 of the unissued recording further supports your theory.

And Andy, what a thread of expert opinion! Absolute gold! Many thanks for that.

I have been thinking about the influence of Django on Joaquin for awhile. This example shows that without doubt he was listening but I have not been able to find any other direct quotes. â€œDjangoishâ€, sure, but specific licks?? If anyone can cite anything specific, I would be appreciative. I have been fairly deeply into the Django catalogue with my ears open looking for such and have also studied an excellent recent book on Djangoâ€™s playing by Ben Givan that I would recommend to anyone who is interested.

https://www.press.umich.edu/1997109/the_music_of_django_reinhardt

This is a Youtube playlist I have put together which has the solos that Givan transcribed for his book. It is not a bad listening experience just for itself. The tracks are in the order that they appear in the book.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJcr3DYBemcO_UcW1Vj9s5qzuAqWUr7he

Givan also did a heap of transcriptions that didnâ€™t make it to the book that can be found here. This is some heavy duty work!

https://sites.google.com/site/klemjc/

Here is a comparison between Djangoâ€™s recording and two takes by Joaquin. The unissued one is spoiled but it is good to hear and compare. The quotation only lasts 14 bars before he gives it away on both takes. I wonder if he did this as an exercise without prompting and without the bandleader knowing. There are some subtle differences between all three in the first 14 bars. One wonders if the dropout in the unissued take was technical or in the playerâ€™s hands and whether Joaquin knew that the take was going to be bad.

Honeysuckle Rose, unissued take: https://soundcloud.com/guy-cundell/honeysuckle-rose-c46-coast-unissued

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

And just posted ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Onfdvr00oX8
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Nick Fryer · From: Ohio, USA

Love this thread!

Here is my take on this solo that I worked up a few months back. I had to slow it to about 80%. Murph is burning it up on this! Learning this solo taught me a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pCtvXUGs5k

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Ken Rainey's great article on Murph:

http://kennethrainey.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2016/08/Early-Murphey-Article.pdf
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