String through pickups and palm muting (newbie question)

Nathan Parrish · From: Texas, USA

Hey guys - I've played guitar for a long time, and my wonderful girlfriend got me an old Supro lap steel for Christmas (she listens!), so I've just started learning to play steel guitar. I'm trying to avoid getting entrenched in bad habits from the start, and one thing that is a bit difficult for me is trying to palm mute given that the string through pickup is right near the bridge. I searched a little bit for discussion on this and wasn't finding anything, so my apologies if this is a well covered topic.

Anyways, what has felt natural to me so far is to kinda rest or have my palm near the pickup and pluck just above that. I guess I could reach back and mute behind it between notes, but that seems like a lot of movement and I'm not having a ton of success. But, I just started and so it would also be pretty natural for success to not be immediate. I guess I'm wondering how you more experienced players who have perhaps played with a pickup like this near the bridge deal with this.

Thanks!

(picture of the guitar in question)

James Hartman · From: Pennsylvania, USA

I'd give up the palm muting on that particular instrument - the pickup is just in the way. Also, in general, I'd suggest experimenting with right hand placement to see where you find the tone most agreeable. And allowing your right hand the freedom to move gives you more varied expression.

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

Along with the relatively tight string spacing, that's the reason I have some difficulty playing many Valco instruments. Admittedly, when properly adjusted, they do sound just awesome.

I've become spoiled with the wider spacing of most 6-string Gibsons, even though in most cases their fragile Plexiglas covers need to be removed to facilitate palm blocking near the bridge.

Nathan Parrish · From: Texas, USA

Ah ok - I guess I won't worry so much about palm muting, and I suppose minimizing extraneous noise is just something I'll need to be cognizant of and work on as I learn the instrument. I'll have to experiment with the right hand position as well. Thanks a ton!

James Hartman · From: Pennsylvania, USA

"Minimizing extraneous noise" is one of the basic challenges of steel guitar playing. Both hands are engaged in this: the left hand damping the strings behind the bar at all times, the right hand damping ("blocking") with either the edge of the palm or (individual strings) with the picks whenever you want to stop a note or notes from sounding. You will spend a lot of time working at this if you want to achieve a good sound.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Good advice, James — Maybe the Supro is a good instrument to learn pick blocking.

Nathan — Take a lesson from Joe Wright. Lap Steel Lesson #2 I think is the one on pick blocking, but you can see how his right hand works in all the videos.
http://sierrasteels.com/lessons/lap-lessons.html

Regarding palm blocking on a steel — it is not the same as palm muting on a guitar. That bouncing motion you are talking about is exactly what palm blocking is, and the key to mastering it is minimizing the amount of movement involved. When you watch Jeff Newman play, you can hardly tell sometimes if there is any vertical movement in his right hand.

And most of all, don’t tell your girlfriend that she just bought you something that is going to increase the amount of time you spend away from her.

James Kerr · From: Scotland, UK

Nathan,
Mr James Hartman gives good advice, try not to get hung up on details like this, it can stop you really getting on with the playing.

Here is one of my Videos showing the use of the right hand at various positions on the Fret Board, chasing Tones and not getting anchored in any one position. I'm not conscious of any kind of blocking, but it must be happening without me trying to do that, notice too I commit some other "Sins" like playing open strings, I just want to get the Music out without getting fixated on any nonsense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWVll5SxZ7M

James.

Nathan Parrish · From: Texas, USA

awesome advice, thanks guys - definitely checking out the pick blocking lessons

David Matzenik · From: Cairns, on the Coral Sea

Unfortunately, the designers of those early electric guitars were hung-up on visual symmetry, putting the tone control right where you don't want it. Thankfully, that only lasted about 8 years, although the existing models were produced later. You will just have to work around that. One trick to help from accidental tone control change is to put a rubber washer under the knob. The friction helps to keep it in the same position.
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Former Member · Posted 30 Dec 2017 1:18 pm

It took me a minute to figure out what you were talking about.
Normally you wouldn’t mute the strings at the bridge unless you were chicken pickin.
The string thru is in a good spot.
Usually you’re picking somewhere near the 12 th Fret.
Palm muting happens like this... Pretend you are doing a karate chop on the strings with the fleshy part of your palm landing on the strings.
Rest your hand there and curl your fingers inward towards the nut of your guitar.
—Here’s the tricky part, you pick the string as you raise your hand...
You don’t mute until you’re ready to pluck the next note. As you hand goes back down, the fleshy part of your palm needs to land (and stop the previous notes vibrations) before you raise up and pick again. As you get better and quicker it will start to look like your hand is bouncing up and down on the strings. Try to make the notes completely stop on the bounce. Pretty soon you will only raise your hand up a tiny bit off the strings.
There is a sweet spot on that fretboard to pick where the note will sound much fuller, again usually somewhere near the 12th fret, experiment with that.

Bill Sinclair · From: Waynesboro, PA, USA

Exactly what Ron says. You do your picking on a lap steel much further up the neck than you're accustomed to on a standard guitar. Jerry Byrd played some of the most beautiful lap steel recorded performing flawless palm blocking in front of a string-through horseshoe pickup that would have been located about the same place ahead of the bridge that your Supro pickup is located. I'm still learning to palm block myself but I see it as absolutely necessary to the sound and type of playing I'm after.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Would it be sacrilege to try a different pickup? Just asking.
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Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Stephen Abruzzo · From: Philly, PA

Former Member · Posted 30 Dec 2017 6:45 pm

I really meant about an octave away from whatever fret you're playing on, but of course you'll get a different type of tone all along the length.
I don't know how we got so worried about "edge" all of the sudden with a brand new player. everyone's got an opinion, but those string-thru's are pretty edgy already.
scale length is another factor also. anyway,,,,I'm just a student no big expert.
Check out a true master!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5d9w2d6nQo
He does it all

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Edge, growl, bite, mellow, whatever... Ron, youâ€™re right - weâ€™re all experts at giving our opinions, eh?

At least now Nathan knows that palm muting a guitar bridge and palm blocking on steel are two different things, and the option of pick blocking has been made clear. And he has a pretty cool looking steel that has been given the seal of approval here for having a great sounding (if somewhat inconveniently located) pickup too.

Former Member · Posted 31 Dec 2017 1:00 am

HA!
Sorry, my fault. That’s what happens when you practice while watching the UFC and SGF!

David M Brown · From: California, USA

Nathan Parrish · From: Texas, USA

yep, definitely useful to know that the palm blocking need not necessarily be down by the bridge.

I'm really loving learning this instrument - I just love the whole bell tone/gliss/vibrato thing, so I feel like I'm getting a ton of "feels good" moments making sounds. Spent yesterday trying to learn Sleepwalk from a youtube video - I feel like I'm making progress Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvmDSD4M6kA

Larry Carlson · From: My Computer

Hi Nathan,

I have that exact guitar, well sort of.
Mine was made in 1947 as far as I can determine.
Did a lot of work on it and it plays rather well now. It was a basketcase.
As far as playing and muting this guitar goes, I put the 12th fret
somewhere near my left side and my right hand is picking to the left of the knobs.
It works, sort of, but I am not an expert at this.
Muting is a bit awkward with the palm but I use my fingers and edge of my left hand as I can.
It's a neat old lap steel and I like it. If I had more experience at it maybe I could be more definitive.
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