Tuner replacement on Rickey

Bill Sinclair · From: Waynesboro, PA, USA

A few months back I purchased this bakelite Academy guitar that was made by Rickenbacker in the late 40's. It immediately moved to the top as my favorite single neck lap steel for taking to jams. Won't stay in tune though. I know that bakelite bodies are more subject to temperature changes than wooden ones but this thing has to be retuned after just a couple of songs. Someone put replacement tuners on it and I'm hoping that's the problem. I'm about to pull the trigger on a set of the standard post version of these from Stew-Mac:

Link to tuners on Stew-Mac website.

I'll have to grind a little off the end of each plate but it looks like all four screws will fit and the rest of the dimensions look right. Anybody have a better alternative? Or, most important, black or cream? Razz

Here's a picture of what's on there now.

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

Installing ferrules in the headstock probably wouldn't hurt, even though the original Bakelites didn't have them.

Be sure to lubricate the worms & gears on those Golden Age tuners before you install them. One would like to think that, for the money they charge, Stew-Mac would have attended to this before they went out the door -- or at least furnished instructions for the buyer to do so.

I failed to lube a set that I installed on my '81 Dobro 60-D, and the gear for the 6th string stripped out almost immediately.

I ordered a similar set of Golden Age tuners for a '43 EH-125 I'm bringing back to life. This time I copiously smeared the worms and gears with petroleum jelly. Hoping they will fare better. If so, I plan to install a set on my '20s era Weiss to preserve the originals.

Like most metal stuff imported from Asia nowadays, the Golden Age replicas are probably constructed from the melted down carbodies of junked Pintos, Vegas, and Gremlins. Expecting performance on a par with the originals is probably too much to ask for.

Bill Sinclair · From: Waynesboro, PA, USA

Dang, that's discouraging. I'd expect that from the $20 tuners but not the $45 ones. Any idea if these Grovers are any better?

Link to tuners on Stew-Mac website.

I can't justify $150 for a set of Waverlys.

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

Sorry for any discouragement, Bill. The Golden Age replicas will probably work fine as long as they're properly lubricated from the get-go.

I'm probably a week or so away from stringing up the EH-125, so if I have a similar experience with the new tuners I'll be sure to report back. And I most definitely won't order another set for my Weiss.

I don't have any experience with the newer Grovers. I have installed several sets of vintage Kluson replicas from Gotoh, which are by far my modern tuners of preference. They are excellent for instruments from the '50s & '60s, but inappropriate for older (and some newer) instruments.

Good luck with your Academy. Hard to beat the sound of a Bakelite. My B6 is the best sounding electric instrument in the house.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

First - I found reproduction Waverly-type tuners for my Weissenborn Style 2. I just received the guitar this week and the tuners are being shipped from Australia.

I don't have them yet but several other original Weissenborn owners have told me they are the best quality replacements (in addition to being repros) for the original Waverlys. Here's a link to the seller's blog page with pictures and info (he sells quite a few other Weissenborn parts such as non-slotted bridge pins, wire saddles etc):

http://tonyfrancisinstruments.blogspot.com/p/hardware-and-parts.html

Next - Regarding the Stewmac tuners - I've installed several sets including a couple on instruments I own ( a Regal non-resonator squareneck and a 1920's Schireson Bros Lyric Style IV hollowneck.

They've worked just fine and the modern ratio is certainly handy. I ordered reproduction tuners for my Weissenborn as it is 100% original except for one missing tuner shaft, crown gear & screw.

Finally: I've owned a few Bakelite lap steels - a couple of Academies, and I currently play a dual-8 Rickenbacher Electro with Bakelite necks & steel bodies (a *twenty* pounder!) and have worked on quite a few. I've never encountered any tuning stability problems with Bakelite steels other than those involving tuners that lack ferrules - or worn tuners themselves.

But nothing at all related to Bakelite itself. In my experience it's actually more stable than most wood and sheet-steel guitars.

Could the problems be related to either large temperature or humidity swings? I don't have either problem here.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

Ferrules in the tuner shaft holes will stabilize those shafts quite a bit, and look better than rough holes.

Drilling bakelite holes bigger for ferrules, is touchy! A tapered reamer at the top of the hole, to the OD of the Ferrule before drilling through, will prevent chipping of the bakelite material....

Bill Sinclair · From: Waynesboro, PA, USA

Thanks for all the helpful input. I went ahead and ordered the Golden Age tuners from Stewmac. You may be able to tell from the second picture that the tuner holes have a significant bevel on them so I should be able to drill out for the ferrules without chipping the bakelite. I'll also be sure to lube the gears as Jack recommends. I'll report back once installed and tested.

Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

George Piburn · From: The Land of Enchantment New Mexico

When drilling plastics - Bakelite and so on if you use a plastics drill bit , it will prevent chip out.

The drill tips are ground to a greater taper than standard drill bits.

If you know the diameter for your hole google for a plastics bit in that diameter .

Amazon and eBay have loads of sellers.

If you are keen with a stone grinder wheel for metals and patient you can take any standard drill bit and re shape the tip to the greater taper by hand in a few minutes.

Important !! -- Bakelight is carcinogenic
do not breath or ingest the debris if you want to live longer or not grow extra arms from your forehead.

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Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
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Bill Sinclair · From: Waynesboro, PA, USA

Well, here are the new tuners. I went ahead and ordered the Golden Age tuners from Stewmac. Had to grind a little off the outside edges and enlarge a couple of the mounting holes to fit the existing screw holes. The tuner shafts lined up nicely but I went ahead and enlarged those holes to accept the ferrules. It tunes up a little easier with a better ratio and a little less backlash than the cheapo tuners that were on it. I think it's a little better but it still seems to go out of tune more readily than any of my other guitars. Part of the problem is that sometimes I only play lap steel on one or two songs per set. If I forget to check my tuning between sets with this guitar, I'm in for a surprise. I think I'll just have to be more diligent about tuning and avoid using it for an outdoor gig. Other than that, I love the sound it makes - even with me playing it!

Darn, I somehow lost the picture of the backside when transferring from the camera to the computer.

Jerry Wagner · From: California, USA

Hi Bill,
Really nice job on the tuner replacement! I have an Academy & love the tone. 2 things I don't like: 1) the action is low & since I can't alter the bridge & pickup height I can't do anything about picks contacting the fretboard more than I'd like. 2) just like aluminum, Bakelite has high density & coefficient of thermal expansion, leading to tuning instability when I put the guitar in my lap. I need to have a Ric Bakelite or Frypan in my lap for 10 minutes or more before I even try to tune. IMHO the alternatives are: 1) use a stand, or 2) put a small 1/2" thick insulating foam pad between your leg & and the guitar body. Something like this helps, stays put & doesn't look too weird: https://www.amazon.com/NorthShore-NSI-Minicell-Foam/dp/B00T3KKA3K

Steve Wilson · From: Morgan Hill, California, USA

I wind the 1st and 6th strings on my Academy the opposite way on the tuners as the rest to avoid the dramatic angle over the nut. Mine seems to stay in tune pretty well, but I never play it under stage lights or in the hot sun.

Bill Sinclair · From: Waynesboro, PA, USA

I keep forgetting to post this picture of the backside of the headstock to show how the tuners mounted. I described what I did a couple of posts back. These tuners look a lot nicer but I'm still having problems keeping the guitar in tune. It may just be because it's winter and there are big swings in temperature bringing it in from a cold trunk. I kind of wish I'd tried the Grovers instead but I had already ordered these before I saw Andy's post.

Tom Mack · From: Illinois, USA

Hey Bill, nice job on the tuner replacement! I noticed that your strings are wound on the capstan going up. Not sure if there is a reason for that but I always thought they should be wound going down toward the peghead. Also, I've gotten in the habit of "locking" the cut end of the string under the first wind which seems to help things stay in tune.
Here's a link showing what I'm talking about:

http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/repair/acoustic-guitar/string-changing.php

Good luck with your steels!

Tom

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