Whats Wrong Here

Burnell Groft · From: Pennsylvania, USA

I completely tore down a Sho Bud Professional 11 D10. to do a clean job on all parts,wow what a difference. The springs on both raise and lower fingers are rusted.tried to clean them with gasoline but they are still not like I would like them to be. My problem is that when I push the lower finger the raise finger will also move. Would it be that the spring has lost its spring? I don't quite know what the spring does that is hooked to the lower finger. I need a little help.Thanks to all that may assist me.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

I can't help with the mechanics, but as someone who spent decades in the paint/solvents business - I do not suggest using gasoline as a cleaning solvent. It's both a poor cleaner a extremely unsafe.

In addition to flash point danger and extremely unhealthy fumes, gasoline is a "dirty" solvent that leaves an oily residue on anything it touches. It' supposed to be slightly oily to provide some lubrication for engines - which makes it a lousy cleaner.

The slight amount of oil stays on whatever you "clean" and acts as a magnet for microscopic dirt. This actually gums up the works over time. Gasoline can also damage most finishes and many plastics - it shouldn't be near guitars or their parts.

For degreasing parts the safest, cleanest and most effective solvent is normally Naphtha - plain Ronson lighter fluid (NOT charcoal lighter) is Naphtha with a benign dye in it - it works very well for degreasing.

But only for degreasing and removal of adhesives and other petroleum-based materials. Not for any other type of parts cleaning.

Even Naphtha should only be used while wearing protective gloves - it should also be used outside or with very good ventilation . And anything other than light spot-cleaning (like a grease spot or removal of sticker adhesive) should really be done only when wearing a cartridge respirator.

Be safe - good luck with the mechanical issues.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

It could be a lot of different things, your description is a little vague. A picture or two would help.

Are you actually talking about raise helper springs? They can cause the sort of problem you describe on strings that have a both a raise and a lower. They're the ones connected directly to the finger, right against the underside of the top deck. If that's what you're describing it's best to disconnect them on any strings that have a lower.

The "lower return springs" are the ones on the bottom (nearest the floor when the guitar is upright). They hold the lowering scissor against the stop. Those need to be tight enough to hold the lowering scissor firmly against the stop when you activate a raise. The raise scissors won't have any effect on them unless the internal pivots are binding, which is a separate issue unrelated to the springs.

Gasoline is really not a great choice for a solvent. You might consider mineral spirits instead

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

oops, I see Jim gave you the gasoline lecture already

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

If the raise scissor pulls off the stop bar when you pull the lowering scissor, then the return spring is not tight enough. Add a few turns to the screw in the spring.
If your Bud has only one lowering hole, then each string has 3 pivot rivets, and they all need lube.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

That's incorrect. Assuming the finger is working properly and nothing is binding inside, the lower return spring has no effect on the raise scissor when activating a lower. Activating a lower is actually pulling that spring directly.

Mechanically, it's string tension that is the "spring" holding the raise scissor against the stop during a lower or at rest. Raise helper springs complicate the mechanics as they work counter to string tension and lessen its effect on the overall system. The result can sometimes be that when activating a lower, raise helper spring tension reduces the effective string tension on the scissor such that there is not enough force to keep the scissor seated against the stop. The OP's issue seems to describe something like this.

Tommy Auldridge · From: Maryland, USA

Burnell: Just give it to me. I'll fix it. Thanks, Tommy.....

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

Actually the lower return spring does have an effect on the raise scissor. If the tension on the lower return spring is too great it can cause the raise scissor to pull away as it is being lowered- it all has to do with the tension that is generated at the pivot point between the lower and raise scissor. If you cannot loosen the lower return spring enough to have the scissor return to neutral from a lower and also hold the lower scissor back during a raise, try to avail yourself of a hole in the lowering scissor that is further away from the pivot point- ie.- furthest from the changer axle.

Burnell Groft · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Thank you all for the input on my issue. The gas did clean up the gunk on the parts but not a good idea. Tommy,I didn't know you knew about all pull guitars. Come help me out.

Tommy Auldridge · From: Maryland, USA

Burnell: I was only joking when I said give it to me. Seriously though, I think you'll be able to fix it yourself by following the suggestions of the other guys here on the forum. Maybe Ricky Davis will chime in with some helpful hints. Thanks, Tommy..... p.s. Have a nice Christmas!

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