Professional steel playing

Ryan Giese · From: Spokane, Washington, USA

I know that a lot of you have done it here. I was just wanting to here other opinions and the ups and downs of this because I'll be graduating from highschool in a couple of years and junior year is when i have to do all my applications. I am planning on college but I need to figure out what I want to do so I can decide where to go to college and I know that I need a lot more work. Sorry this is kind of in depth but everyone in Spokane only tells me the down side of it and I wanted to hear some ups if there was any. Thanks!

[This message was edited by Ryan Giese on 28 June 2005 at 11:00 PM.]

Chris Scruggs · From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Nashville is surely a great place to play for a living. I played in the honky tonks on Lower Broadway my whole way through high school. Its also a great touring location, just look at a map and you''' see that Nashville is within a days drive of most cities east of the Rockies.

Most people that complain about the road are people that have gotten to an age where it's not fun for them anymore. For some people this age is 30, for some this age is 80. Having children usually makes people want to leave the road (a great reason, and one I always respect), but sometimes things as easy as a bad two week run can make people curse the road.The only way to find out is to do it. You might hate it after one weekend, or you might love it your entire life.

Give it a shot.

Back to the Nashville area, alot of kids get their degree in music business at Belmont University here in Nashville, or at Middle Tennessee State University in Murfreesboro (30 miles east of Nashville). Murfreesboro has a large music scene, too, with many great bands that spring up from MTSU students. Austin, Texas is another great college town with a music scene (just in case you didn't hear about it).

Hope this helps, CS

[This message was edited by Chris Scruggs on 28 June 2005 at 11:52 PM.]

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Hi Ryan, good of you to be thinking ahead.

As far as a college program, go with what you truly have enthusiasm for, regardless of whether or not you expect to make a career of it.

If you really have a passion for the steel (or any musical instrument) keep playing it every chance you get. Remember, though, that if you put all your eggs in that basket you may eventually find yourself sitting in some bar one night counting the notes to see if you have covered the rent yet. That's a terrible thing to let happen to the music that brightens your soul.

Of course, if you're truly exceptional as a picker you should be able to make something enjoyable out of it but remember that eventually most folks get over living on the road. The top session guys like Paul Franklin or Sonny Garrish get to sleep at home fairly regularly, but as guys like Lloyd or Buddy will tell you right away, even if you are a "success" at it, even if everbody in the world says you're the best there is, a day WILL come when the phone doesn't ring much anymore because sombody new is "hot" and getting the jobs you once got called for.

In any case, study the music BUSINESS if you want to have any control at all over your own destiny.

I guess what I'm saying is, always, ALWAYS stay true to yourself, avoid expectations, and look for ways to earn a living that that can support the comfort level that pleases you. If you can play a lot of good music in the process, then you've scored big time, whether or not it's your permanent livelihood.

I wish you the very best of luck whatever your path becomes.

[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 29 June 2005 at 12:18 AM.]

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

Get your education first. Music will be here when your through with school. That little piece of paper that you get from college can easily be the difference between making 15,000.00 a year or making 50,000.00 a year. It can also be the difference in having to work two or three jobs just to make it. You can still study and learn steel guitar while you complete school. Music comes in phases also. Ten years from now it will be the same type music, only it'll have new faces singing and playing. I'm not trying to discourage you from following the musical path, I'm just telling you something I learned first hand. When a person is young and just starting out they don't think about things like nice homes,nice vehicles,a good bank account,buying baby diapers and bills. Son, get your education first and then you can follow music if you still want to. That way, you'll have something to fall back on in the event somethings happens. As far as the steel guitar world goes, there's a lot of wonderful people involved in it and they'll help you anyway they can. Good luck!

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Ryan, definitely think of a fallback position vis a vis being a pro musician.
2 thoughts get an education that will be your alternate job, and minor in music studies, and pick on the side till youir done.

The advanced music education will definitly help with the steel no question.

But the degree and working knowledge of a trad form of work,
will often enable you to have the freedom to play WHAT YOU want,
not slavishly parrot somebody's studio takes on the road as a pro.

The choice of a remunerative, but flexable day gig chopice could be crucial to yout musical well being.

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

Playing a steel-guitar is a fulfilling and successful AVOCATION and can usually be enjoyed throughout a musicians life-time.

However, with a few notable exceptions, the potential for a successful life-long OCCUPATION as a musician is not very promising.

You might be one of the exceptions, so go for the experience while you are still young......but always keep your options open and be prepared for another career!

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www.genejones.com
The Road Traveled "From Then 'til Now"

David Doggett · Posted 29 Jun 2005 5:25 am

Ryan, there are two opposite ways to look at this. As suggested above, you can go directly to college and study for a good day job and play music on the side, both in college, and after you get out and start your day job. On the other hand, I know many people who went directly to college, got the good day job, and later realized their heart was not in it and were miserable.

It is not completely insane to follow your passion for a few years while you are young, before committing to the time and money college requires. After a few years in the real world, you will know much better what you want to dedicate your life to doing all day. You will know exactly what path to take in college, and your grades will be outstanding, because of one of the valuable lessons you will learn in real life - that success requires you to give it everything you have. It is better to learn that first than to slack your way through college and enter a lame career that you hate. So taking a few years to follow your passion before college can be a great thing, provided that you have the money to return to college later. If your parents are helping you financially through college, many parents would rather see you work out your youthful obsessions and get some real world experience first instead of going straight to college and floundering and wasting their money.

Whatever you decide to do, you have to give it everything you have to get anywhere. It is a tough choice. As some mentioned above, many people play music for a living when they are young. But when they need to settle down with a house and children, they either shift to the business side of music (not necessarily an easy thing to do), or they start from scratch in a new profession. On the other hand, the only people who manage to support themselves playing their entire lives started young and gave it everything they had, with never a thought of doing anything else. That is a very tough row to hoe, but a few do it (or maybe we should say ONLY a few do it).

The problem with life is you have to make so many important decisions when you are young and know too little.

Andy: Kingfish, how do you get good judgment?

Kingfish: Ohhhh, Andy, good judgment comes from experience.

Andy: Well, how do you get experience?

Kingfish: Bad judgment.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 29 June 2005 at 06:31 AM.]

Marty Pollard · Posted 29 Jun 2005 6:39 am

1. STDs
2. frequent bouts of salmonella
3. alcohol induced blackouts
4. emergency equipment repairs
5. high salt/fat/sugar diet
6. vehicle breakdowns
7. violent episodes in the workplace
8. dear john letters
9. meth detox
10. gorgeous transvestites

Of course there's a down side too but I'll let the others fill you in on that.

Michael Garnett · From: Seattle, WA

Jeez, Marty, when can I start cashing in on some of that!?!? It's a cream dream!

Ryan - I think these guys are on the right track. I'm just a few years ahead of you, graduated high school in 1998, went to Texas A&M, studied Aerospace Engineering and did Naval ROTC for 4 years. I woke up one day in a deep depression, my grades were in the toilet, and my status as a student was precarious, because the U.S. Navy wasn't too happy with my recent grades and trouble with local law enforcement.

I went through the proper channels and got out of my obligations to society and the military. I was playing music and working in a bar, making enough money to be comfortable. But once I got tired of that, I enrolled in school studying music. I'd say the WORST thing you could possibly do is try to become a professional steel picker without a music theory background, unless you're some kind of freak prodigy, in such case, I hate you

. I've learned more in 2 semesters of study than in 3 years of trying to teach myself things on the steel.

And since I've "been there and done that" already, I've taken an average of 18 hours per semester, and have a perfect 4.0 GPA. It's amazing what happens when you go to class every day and do your homework, because it's something you LOVE to do.

Their website stinks, but you might want to check out www.southplainscollege.edu , which is the school I'm at right now. Many great pickers and singers have come through here, including Lee Ann Womack, Several of the Maines Family, Ron Block (plays for Allison Krauss), and countless other very successful sidemen. This is the largest Commercial Music program in the nation and, ironically enough, not too many people have heard about it.

Please feel free to drop me an e-mail sometime. I'll be out of town for the next couple weeks, but I can check this address here hopefully while I'm vacationing. michael.garnett@gmail.com .

Good luck to you, and if you ever want to get down here and check out the school, you're welcome to stay at the house.

-MG

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I was able to supplement my income by playing steel on weekends for many years. When I tried to do it professionally for a while, I didn't do so well.

Few musicians make what most people would call "good money". It's a very uncertain career. Some of the very best steel players in the world have lived and died in poverty.

The only real upside is the art. Unfortunately, few "professional" steel players get to pursue an artistic dream. If you are not dependent on your music to make a living, you are free to follow your muse. But then you don't always get to play with top-notch players, so it's a trade-off.

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Listen to all this great advice you've been given Ryan. These guys have BEEN there!

Guys start out young ,strong,all full of "p**s and vinegar"... Want NOTHING to do with education.. "I'm gonna be a rock star"
.. Play 5-6 nights a week for years.

Now, like a lot of ex "pro" musicians, we wonder about how we can ever retire, what the future holds, etc.. Never thought about these things at the age of 25..but NOW in our 50's,60's etc...

Get a great education first.. music will ALWAYS be there!.. If you are really THAT talented, the cream will rise to the top, and you will make a name for yourself among your peers.

These days the competion is FIERCE out there. also. My humble advice is, Learn first, pursue your musical destiny later... bob

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

If you really want to be a full time musician going through music school is a big leg up. My most lucrative gigs ever came from my ability to read and understand how to play along to music that would have been over my head without the education. My main income now is from playing with a band that initailly hired me as part of a string section for a tune. Then they brought me in for overdubs. Because I understood and could hear what the arranger was doing with his counterpoint it was simple for me to find parts to play that brought out what the producer wanted. There is no way I would have been able to do that without the music school background.

Also there are many ways to make money with music that an education can open up. Arranging, composing, teaching.....

Its a long bumpy road being a musician but it is also a long bumpy road doing anything. At least on my bumpy road I'm playing music.

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Bob
My Website

Adrienne Clasky · From: Florida, USA

Ryan, what about majoring in sound engineering? That way, you could make a living and record your own music on the side. I have a cousin (jazz trombone) who does this. My husband has a cousin (guitar/songwriter) who supports himself as a studio musician (Chicago) while playing and producing his own stuff on the side.

Good luck to you!!!!

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

If I were in your position right now and wanted to take a stab at a pro career, I would prepare myself to be a studio musician. Buy a download service and start downloading the top 40 country tunes for the last few years. Learn every groove and every steel lick of them. Get some sort of home studio set up and some backing tracks or BITB and start recording every free minute you have. I am talking about hours and hours and days and days of practice and work. When I was your age, I had been out gigging for years with the older guys. I learned a lot from them and kept at it, finished college and made my living playing. Still do.

If you want to go to school---go to school in Nashville. You will be close to the center of the earth for steel guitar and can stay on top of things while in school. Don't get scared off by the negatives of the music biz. If you love to play, you can find a level of musicianship and an outlet for your desire if you work hard at it. The biggest difference I see today in the music biz as opposed to the late 50s and 60s when I came up is that there are more players who are good-----but not any more who are great. Also the venues for playing live are not as many as in later years for whatever reason.

Bottom line--if you are a great player, you can make a great career out of music. Spend every minute you can working on music and on your instrument. It will pay off if you do it.

John De Maille · From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.

Ryan,
Being a musician and having a musical career can be a wonderful way to travel through life. Unfortunately, the music business doesn't always play by the rules. What's good this year is totaly out to pasture next year. And so on, and so on. We have no control over music companies or producers or even the public's idea of what they're told to like.
So, my best advice is to have a solid education or skill, that you can fall back on. Hopefully then, you'll never starve or have to sell precious equipment just to survive. A lot of us have been there, a time or two. I'm not saying to avoid a musical career, just have some marketable knowledge in another field to help you in the lean times.

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

All good advice above. One of my grandaughters who invested two years at Nashville's Belmont, and who is more musically educated and talented in one day than I was in my entire career, has traded performing for a degree in Engineering Physics, with the objective of designing audio equipment.

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www.genejones.com
The Road Traveled "From Then 'til Now"

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

There is money, and there is art. It is pretty hard to get them to meet in the middle!

The upside of doing music is doing music, but I'd never be able to raise a family solely on performing...not that raising a family should be your goal, that just my .02.

Consider all the sides of the argument, and then follow your heart, says I.

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

[This message was edited by John McGann on 29 June 2005 at 10:06 AM.]

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Ryan I went to JC in 71 for music,planned on working music store retail, giving lessons, and live performance. Ended up a retail clerk in a grocery store, going on 33 years, retire in 7 at 58. I still play almost every weekend,for fun and a(very)little profit. Most of my full time musician friends around my age have no retirement, no benes, no medical, crappy cars and minimal housing, yet I often envy their choice, as I'm sure they do mine. My advice- stay in school,play partime 'till you're sure you want it, then goforit with all you got!JP

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

You can do both. Play often and get a degree in a field you care about. If it were not for VietNAm and the draft, I would never have gone to college. I was playing six and seven nights a week, producing large shows once a year or so, making tons of money, and still making it through college.
Then our style of music was not as popular anymore. Gigs were scarce, the draft was always looming, so I stayed in college.
Glad I did. I still play for fun 2 nights a week, always taking lessons, and playing as much as I can. The good news is I don't have to rely on the whims of popular music.

I hope this has helped in some way.

Good luck. Seek, and ye shall find.

Ron

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Stay up on your education, whether college or a good rock solid trade. Learn all the music you can while you are young. The older you get, the more life gets in the way. Family comes along, mortgage, car payments, insurance, ect. Learn as much about music as you can before this comes up BIG in your life.
Seems like 90% of musicians make just a little money, and 10% make great money. Can you get yourself into that top 10%? Old saying is really true here: "Don't quit your day job!"

Avocation or occupation, as Gene said.

[This message was edited by James Morehead on 29 June 2005 at 04:42 PM.]

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Ryan-Everyone here is giving out a lot of GOOD advice So pick the way you want to go, and follow your Heart........al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Ryan Giese · From: Spokane, Washington, USA

Thanks for all the replies and great advice. I know I still have a lot of work to do becuase I am nowhere mear where I want to be. I appreciate all the advice. Thanks again!

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

A couple of thoughts:

* Wallace Stevens, one of the great American poets of the 20th century, worked at the Hartford Insurance company and wrote poetry in his spare time.

* Mick Jagger was very reluctant to drop out of the London School of Economics in 1964 ... even though the Rolling Stones had started recording their first album the year before, and had a decent following.

* I'm sure there are many other examples along these lines...

Ryan, maybe you can do a "dual track" thing too, and then pursue performance/recording full-time if that takes off for ya.

Also, as others have pointed out, there are many ways to make a living with music other than being an A-list PSGer. There's always teaching or sound engineering if you need a more regular, reliable income.

-Tucker

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Savell · From: Slocomb, AL

edUcation, edUcation, edUcation...

Even the lucky ones that made good without it, wish they had gotten it first.

Savell Norsworthy

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