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Topic: How are Return springs attached? |
Jeff Metz Jr.
From:
York, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 29 Oct 2017 1:14 pm |
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I am building something that requires me to end mount springs. What type of screw is being used on Return springs? Could someone show me where to purchase the spring/screws? Thanks
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112 |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 29 Oct 2017 2:02 pm
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Jeff, what kind of guitar is pictured here? Tom
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Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Jeff Metz Jr.
From:
York, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 30 Oct 2017 4:36 am
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This is a Schild Guitar I believe built in Switzerland.
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112 |
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Ross Shafer
From:
Petaluma, California
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Posted 30 Oct 2017 6:11 am
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Yes, that is a Schild,
Springs like that are typically custom wound, in that case a sheet metal screw is being used to engage the spring coils as if they were threads.
The same thing can be achieved with out tapering the spring by pressing a threaded bushing into the non-tapered spring and using a machine screw. 4-40 is a good size. You might find an appropriate stand off or threaded insert of some sort to use for the threaded bushing, but to get the right press fit into the spring you may have to modify what you find or have someone make the bushing for you (assuming you don't have machine shop access).
You might see if Michael Yahl at PSG parts sells any adjustable return springs. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 30 Oct 2017 9:37 am
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I got new springs for 2 steels at Century Spring. They have tens of thousands available.
http://www.centuryspring.com/extension/extension-springs.html
I used a couple of fishing scales to estimate initial tension and rate. My goal was higher initial tension and lower rate than the stock springs. That's why I used longer springs than the originals.
Here is one that I used:
http://www.centuryspring.com/extension-spring-zz2-67.html
If you like, I could find my notes on inital tension and rate.
I just stuck nuts in them and squeezed the end of the springs like this:
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 30 Oct 2017 9:54 am
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| those look very similar to Emmons LeGrande springs, which you can probably get from Billy Knowles at Steel Guitars East |
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Stephen Williams
From:
from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA
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Posted 31 Oct 2017 11:15 pm
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| Great info Earnest. I am trying to sort through the spring rate and load criteria. Your notes would be invaluable to me. I prob need to get a little fishing scale and measure the maximum load. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 1 Nov 2017 8:42 am
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| Stephen Williams wrote: |
| ..I am trying to sort through the spring rate and load criteria. Your notes would be invaluable to me. I prob need to get a little fishing scale and measure the maximum load. |
OK, here are my notes. Maybe the most relevant note is at the end where I decided that empirical methods were better than analytical, and went with stiffer springs than I had planned. In many cases I just chopped off a few coils rather than buying more springs (I had already spent more than $100 at Century.)
| Tab: |
Fishing scale data
=========== calibrate the 2 fishing scales
Add 12 ounce cans of water to the polyethylene water bottle
The little yellow one reads too low.
Tha black one reads too high.
pounds read read
actual yellow black
0.75 0.2 0.75
1.5 1.0 2.25
2.25 1.8 3.2
3.0 2.4 4.0
3.75 3.3 5.0
4.5 4.0 5.9
5.25 4.9 6.5
6.0 5.5 7.3
6.75 6.2 8.2
7.5 7.1 9.0
8.0 7.5 9.5
=======================================
tension of return springs on GFI
The inconsistencies show how hard it is to get an accurate reading
string yellow black actual
1. .013 G# 2.2 3.4 2.7
2. .015 D# 2.6 4.0 3.1 (string got hung up?)
3. .0115 A 3.2 4.4 3.5
4. .014 F# 3.2 4.4 3.5
5. .017p D 3.2 4.2 3.4
6. .022w A# 2.4 3.8 3.0
7. .026 F# 2.0 3.0 2.5 (then 4.0 black, assume higher)
8. .030 F 2.2 3.5 2.5
9. .034 D# 2.0 4.0 2.7
10. .038 C# 2.0 3.4 2.6
11. .042 A 2.0 3.0 2.4
12. .054 F# 1.4 2.5 1.7
============================================
tension of return springs on S-12 sho-Bud
string yellow black actual
1. .013 G# 2.2 3.5 2.6 (careful for string hang-up)
2. .015 D# 2.7 4.0 3.25
3. .0115 A 2.2 3.8 2.7
4. .014 F# 1.6 3.0 2.0
5. .017p D 1.7 3.0 2.1
6. .022w A# 2.0 3.2 2.5 (??)
7. .026 F# 1.7 2.5 2.0 (but it sometimes hangs up
8. .030 F 1.6 3.0 2.0 (??)
9. .034 D# 2.0 3.1 2.3
10. .038 C# 1.4 3.1 2.1
11. .042 A 1.1 2.0 1.4
12. .054 F# 1.6 3.0 2.0
==================
I bought these springs order 2006 August 22
for GFI
century initial
qty stock# len rate tension
6 S-538 1.88 2.6 0.8 for the harder pulls 2,3,4,5,6
12 5911 2.13 2.1 0.8
12 5541 2.38 2.6 0.9
for Sho-Bud
ZZ2-67 (MW)
or
S-545 (SST)
12 2.5 1.9 0.9 === 1.9 should be nice and easy
============
Aug 22 I try the springs on the GFI
In general, the springs are too weak. I need more tension than I had calculated. The 6 extra short, stiff S-538 are just right for strings 2,3,4,5,6 on the GFI.
For the other strings on GFI, I will probably remove coils from the 5911 and 5411.
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 1 Nov 2017 8:48 am
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Note also that you may want shorter springs than I chose. I wanted longer springs for easier pushing at the end of the push, so I put new pieces on the guitar to hold the springs:
Sho-Bud:
GFI:
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Stephen Williams
From:
from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA
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Posted 1 Nov 2017 12:25 pm
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All great info Earnest. Those 538 springs are $4.20 each! Ouch.
I will try estimating my load. Your maximum seems about 3.5 lbs.
I did hear of somebody using a screen door spring and cutting it up as they are 16" long and pretty cheap. Pure genius!
I love the idea of inserting the nut to adjust the tension |
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