ringing tones

Doc Hall · From: Galveston, Tx

I'm getting an additional ringing tone when playing strings 1 and 3 around frets 13 and 15. Sounds a bit like a drone note and is an artifact from striking the two strings in unison. Amp is a Quilter Steelaire. Adjusting the tone doesn't help much. Any ideas?

Dave Meis · From: Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA

Might try lowering your pick up...

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Does it happen when you strike the two strings and then mute them? If you let the notes ring, does the ghost tone go away when you move the bar? Does it matter which direction you move the bar? Are you blocking behind the bar?

Sorry for all the basic technique questions, but as a beginner, I'd kinda like to know what the solution is too in case I ever encounter the problem.

Tim Russell · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Maybe the quickest way to discern the cause - try another amp. If it still persists, then we know the problem lies with the guitar, pedal, cords.
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Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

My first thought is you need to clean up the tops of the changer fingers. Little burrs or roughness on the tops of those fingers can cause the symptoms you've described.

Lots of prior threads have talked about this problem. I take small strips of super fine jeweler's cloth, I think about 600 grit. Put small strips of tape over the cracks between the fingers, and then gently sand the top of the finger using just very light finger pressure. Try very hard to not change the shape of the top of the finger. Hopefully others with chime in on how to do this.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Doc Hall · From: Galveston, Tx

Fred- It occurs when playing the strings in unison on the upper frets (mainly 13 - 15) and I block behind the strings. Moving the bar up or down kills the errant sound.

Lowering the pickup seemed to help a bit (Telonics 409). I tried another amp and it's still occurs. I've never noticed it during a live performance and I can't remember ever playing that note combination regularly. I would normally be blocking the notes.

Since I seldom practice with my amp at home, I noticed the tone when using the amp and pushing the gain at home. Will see what happens in a regular venue.

Thanks guys.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Make sure the sound is coming from the amp. That specific frequency may be reacting to something else in the room you are playing in. A hollow metal or wood object might be trying to sing along, or it could be the natural echo bouncing off the walls and floor. Try playing in another room in the house, preferably a dead sounding room, and see if that changes anything.

Dave Beaty · From: Mesa, Arizona, USA

The top of the changer fingers for the smaller strings is usually the problem, Paul's suggestion generally solves the problem.
The problem can be made worse by resting the changer fingers (with strings installed) on firm or hard surfaces when the guitar is flipped upside down (should never be done). The string vibrates in the "channel" it has formed and the channel must be removed.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Dave Beaty · From: Mesa, Arizona, USA

Fred, it's a function of resonance and resulting physical movement of the string. Worst case is when an overtone node occurs at just the right point in relationship to where the string wraps over the top of the finger.

Maximum "ringing/singing" will occur at maximum physical amplitude of the string. It's reasonable in this case, for it to occur where you note it, and it could be further excited by harmonic resonance of the other string you mention. It is also possible that the finger for the other string may need to be addressed as well.

Earnest's advice should be well taken; you surely don't want to get any abrasive into the changer. But, it can be done successfully if you are careful. Taping off the adjacent fingers as Paul suggests is also a good idea.

Oh, you mentioned "cleaning" the top of the fingers.
This isn't a case of a dirty finger or junk around the string at the top of the finger.
In this case, the problem we suggest as a possible reason for the abnormal "singing" you hear would be because the string is no longer following the original curvature of finger. Over time and sometimes from someone accidentally putting down force on the strings at the top of the finger(s), a worn area is formed at the top of finger, resulting in an increased radius, or even a short, almost flat area on the neck side at the top of the finger.
The "fix" for this is re-radiusing the top of the finger(s) or replacing the finger(s) involved.
The least troublesome and expensive way to do fix the problem is as suggested in this thread.

Just be very sure NOT to make the top of the finger even flatter, or the problem will just be worsened.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I worked through this problem a few years ago with my Emmons. I had the same symptoms described, except I didn't have to play two strings. The third string had sitar like overtones whenever I played it at about the 10th fret or higher. I tried adjusting the amp settings, I raised and lowered the pickup, I tried different amps, I changed the third string repeatedly including trying different gauges, I tried different volume pedals and different cables. Nothing solved the problem.

Then I read about this issue with the top of the changer fingers. I was VERY apprehensive about sanding on the changer finger but finally decided I really had no choice. If I wrecked the finger I would have to pull the changer out and replace the finger, which is obviously a huge undertaking, but I couldn't keep playing the steel as it was.

The good news is the cure worked and the patient didn't die. Just be very clear on what you are doing, be very clean, and don't overdo it!!!
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Dave, interchanging "cleaning up" and "sanding" is a holdover from working in a cabinet shop for 10 years. Means the same thing. Sorry for the confusion there, and thanks for the detailed explanation on the problem. It is a different symptom from what I have experienced, although the solution was the same.

Doc Hall · From: Galveston, Tx

Much thanks. I will try all things mentioned. Sanding will be the last priority. I will post a picture of the changer a bit later. It Is an Excel Superb and has small grooves in the top of the change fingers. This would seem to negate the channeling of the small strings on a flat surface. However, there is a small amount of exposure and that could be the issue. The case for the guitar is semi-soft but has a small degree of padding. Clearly, more padding might be in order. I am playing in a club tomorrow tomorrow and will check the acoustic response.

Doc Hall · From: Galveston, Tx

I played in a small venue last night and the ringing tone wasn't an issue. So, the practice room I use seemed to augment the effect. I will be changing stings soon and will look for any issues on the changer fingers.

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