Adding the low E

Joerg Hennig · From: Bavaria, Germany

Maybe it is because I´m a bit more rock-oriented than the majority of steel players, but ever since I started playing the E9th Chromatic tuning I always felt that with B as the lowest note there was something missing in the low range. When I had an S-12 some years ago, tuned to Extended E9, it felt so much more complete and I would use the two low strings quite often. But for various reasons I eventually got rid of that guitar and went to a D-10 which I liked a lot, but sure did miss the low notes. Especially now that I´m playing in a band with no lead guitar player (except when I double on lead guitar, but in that case there is no steel, obviously). For a long time I thought the only solution would be to drop the chromatic strings and add the low strings instead, but I play a lot of licks on the chromatics so that isn´t an option. I can´t afford to buy another guitar, either. But now I have come up with something.

1. Take off the 9th string (D) and put the 10th string (B) in that place.

2. Hook the A pedal change (raise 1 tone) up to that string.

3. Put low E on string 10. I use a .056.

4. Hook up the knee lever (RKR in my case) that used to drop the 9th string D to C#, to string 8 so it will drop the E to D.

Now there´s a problem. I like to play a lot of sequences on the low strings like B D E, so the E is really missing when the knee lever is engaged. This is also the main reason why I never got into Universals.
But here is a solution. I tuned the 7th string (F#) down to E, so here´s the E back. When I need the F#, I just raise it with a knee lever (LKR) that was already hooked up to that string, so I can play scale runs like B E F# G# just like before. With the two E´s in unison there is always one string that will stay at E when one of the two levers is engaged. The whole thing high to low is:

F#
D#
G#
E
B
G#
E
E
B
E

Pedals - standard ABC

Knee levers - LKL 4 and 8 E´s to F, LKR 1 F# to G and 7 E to F#, RKL 4 and 8 E´s to Eb, RKR 2 D# to C# and 8 E to D.

I guess the low part is somewhat similar to the "Sacred Steel" tunings, but I haven´t looked at those. It is practically an E major tuning now that can be turned into E7 or E9 using knee levers.It may take some time to get used to the new string locations and changes, but I think the effort is definitely worth it. This tuning is great for playing rhythm (as I said, I often have to fill in for guitar parts), crashing powerchords, boogie and Chuck Berry-type rhythm patterns as well as "slide guitar" lines come real easy now. Being able to play the low E is extremely satisfying, even more so with distortion and delay. And all the basic "country" combinations are still there. Sure this is still a compromise, but it´s fun to play. Next Thursday I´ll be playing it on stage for the first time.
Has anyone ever had a similar idea?

Regards,

JH

[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 12 June 2005 at 04:17 PM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I was playing with this for a while:

b0b's E7th copedent

You would want to keep the E9th strings on top, of course. I think Dan Tyack plays a similar tuning.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 12 June 2005 at 04:27 PM.]

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

JH.. I posted a similar thread several months back..
I too like the idea of using the B in the 9 position and using a low E on 10... I would use a knee to drop string 8 E down a full tone to D,probably a different knee than the standard E-Eb change.. not sure..
I think it would work well. Like you, I would like that low note as I am basically a rock player, and I would use the low E more than I use the D I think.

Your copedent ideas would be a pretty usable set up.. I think it would work for me... bob-

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Bobby Lee-Your tuning posted here looks very good to me. I like it. It looks more versatile than a standard E9.

Joe- You have developed a nice tuning out of the E9 tuning. It looks like it is still all there, and you have the lowe E , the B with the D etc. nice going.

Of course the whole solution to your problem and still keep the E9 chromatics etc, would be to have a S 12 guitar with an extended E9 tuning on it, like you used to have.. NOT the usual U12.

You could also get what Bobby has, a D12 with 5/5 and works both necks.
Carter also has a D12 which is another reasonable solution, and still keep your D10 ideas.....good luck......al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Larry Behm · From: Mt Angel, Or 97362

I, having spent time with Dan, put an E on the 10th position, put the B on the 9th position with a knee lever that raised it to a D.

I love the low E, it took about 2 minutes to adapt the fingering.

Larry Behm

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

David Doggett · Posted 12 Jun 2005 7:26 pm

Many universal players these days have a lever that lowers the E to D, and another one that raises the B to D. So you can get any sequence you want in single notes, but you still can't get B, D and E for a simultaneous chord. But I've never missed that, because I'm usually playing power chords down there. Complicated chords down that low sound pretty muddy, especially playing with a group. For some jazz and classical solo pieces I use everything I've got down there, but it sounds very different from what people are used to steel sounding like (in fact I have never played these for anyone but myself). Bill Stafford uses the low strings of his 14-string very effectively in solo pieces. But he is usually just reaching down and catching the bottom note of a chord down there.

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

See my version of the 'Low E' on my site, http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm
just scroll down to it. Works like a champ, I set up any 10 string E9th steel that I play myself with this setup. gives you all those great 'power chords' & lots of rhythm licks.

Ernie Pollock

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Joerg Hennig · From: Bavaria, Germany

This is interesting, Ernie, it also looks very useful. However, there is one thing my tuning can do that yours can´t and that is playing the B and D together. Not everyone might feel the need to do that, but I wanted to be able to play that move (including a low bass note) ever since I heard Sneaky Pete play a similar thing on the original recording of "Christine´s Tune" (Her number always turns up in your pocket...insert lick). I also think lowering the E one step to D is more direct than pulling up the B 1 1/2 steps. And I like the "strumability" of my tuning. You know I just tried to build it around my own perferences, it is very basic, about all I could do with four knee levers that have two pulls each. With a few more levers, it could easily be more refined. For instance, I can imagine a dedicated knee lever to lower the 2nd string to D. As it is now, with two whole-step pulls on RKR there is no more half-stop feel between D# and C# so I have to "half-pedal" it when I want the D.
Anyway, I see it more or less as some kind of compromise and as Al Marcus suggested, my next steel might be a 12 string Extended E9 again (since I don´t want to give up C6, I might be a candidate for a D-12...) On a 12-string E9 it would even be a nice idea to "reverse" those changes, to have a knee lever that maybe lowers the F# to E and the D to B to have two E´s and two B´s in unison - then it will be "strumable" again. Just my thoughts.
Thanks to everyone for the nice comments.

JH

[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 13 June 2005 at 01:35 PM.]

Roger Mullennex · From: AKRON, OHIO USA (deceased)

I changed the 9th to B and put my pull on the first pedal. changed the 10th to low G#
put it on the B pedal then raised the B string to a D with same knee lever that raises first and second.

Roger

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Bobby Lee- I still say the tuning you posted is more Versatile than standard E9.

Your RRK 11 th string going to A gives a nice Amaj7th, also the root for your two standard pedals.

Your LLK with that 12 string lower to C# not only gives the standard E to F knee pedal but also a plus, the old Boowah pedal on C6 in E.

Also the D up in the tuning, similar to Zane Becks, is a real plus, all these pluses make it more Versatile to me, than a standard E9 setup....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 13 June 2005 at 02:37 PM.]

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

Here's my copedent.



notes	P1	P2	P3	P4	LKL	LKV	LKR	RKL	RKR


F#									++G#


D#							-D-C#		+E


G#		+A							


E			++F#		+F			-D#	


B	++C#'		++C#	--A		-A#			


G#		+A		--F#					


F#									--E


E					+F		--D	-D#	


B	++C#			--A		-A#			


E

It's much more versatile for the music I play. I honestly don't miss the low D at all, since it's pretty easy to get one with a knee lever. I had the 7th string tuned to E for a while, but 30 years of E9th made it hard for me to remember to hit the knee lever to get the F#. I agree with Larry that this thing took almost no time for me to get used to. It's a killer tuning.

THe basic idea of the tuning comes from Chuck Campbell, but the idea of modifying the E9th to get it came from b0b.

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www.tyack.com

David Doggett · Posted 13 Jun 2005 8:10 pm

Dan, what do you do with pedal 4?

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

David, that's the infamous 'Paul Franklin pedal'. Search the archives, there have been a ton of threads on this subject.

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www.tyack.com

David Doggett · Posted 15 Jun 2005 3:25 pm

Oh, right. I see now. I was trying to see that as some special blues thing you got from the Sacred Steelers. ...Never mind...

Joerg Hennig · From: Bavaria, Germany

Update. I´ve had a rehearsal on Wednesday and realized how often I really play the ascending scale thing (E F# G# B) on strings 8 7 6 5 and that it is quite uncomfortable having to push the knee lever each time I need the F#. The solution was easy, I tuned the 7th string back to F# and set up the LKR lever to drop it a whole tone to E instead. Now with that lever I get the "strumable" E chord and still can play D and E together (with the RKR engaged as well) and it is closer to standard E9. I played it on a gig yesterday and it worked fine.

Regards, JH

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

Joe, that's exactly what I found.

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www.tyack.com

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