Number of C6th Floor Pedals

Jon James · From: Durham, NC, USA

OK. I am turning a single neck sho-bud professional into a straight C6th Neck. I am putting new parts on it thanks to John Coop. I was planning on going with the standard 5 floors and 2 knees to get me going. I have come to find out that the floor pedal kits are about the same price as a knee lever kits. So here is what I am interested to know. Should I go with 4 pedals and 3 knees, or do I need to have all 5 floor pedals? I know some would prefer to put some pedal changes on there C6th neck, but would rather use those lever for the e9th neck. In my case, I have just a single neck. What is the best way to set up the changes? Keep in mind. As time and money permits, I will eventually have 4 knees on the guitar. If I only go with 4 pedals now, am I going to want to add a fifth pedal in the future?

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I would think you would be better going with the usual 5 floor pedals.

There are many knee lever and pedal combinations you can come up with but staying with a common setup will help, especially if you are just learning the C6th as all instructional literature I've seen uses the 5 floor pedals.

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Jon, I understand the budget constraints... if you decide on just four floors, the one you could most probably do without is the first or "pedal four" from a D-10 setup, A's to B's. A lot of the modern stuff doesn't use it. Herby Wallace's instructional material uses it quite a bit, but other than that I don't see/hear it nearly as much as the other four pedals.

Jon James · From: Durham, NC, USA

Thanks for the comments guys. I aggree for the purposes of getting started it is best to have all five standard pedals, however, what about the issue of putting one of the pedal changes on a knee lever. I kind of feel like most peoples C6th set-ups are strictly determined by their E9th neck, not with the guitar of today, but I think that's the way it used to be, so it seems like there might be a different approach when you only have a single neck. My fear is that I might find a change that I really like, but requires pushing 3 pedals, or using 2 feet, and since I have the room, I might as well put one of those floor pedals on a knee.

John Poston · From: Albuquerque, NM, USA

I'm a huge fan of pedal four A->B and would miss it a lot.

BUT - considering your budget and the possibility of adding it later, I would definitely go with 4x3. Pedal 4 is the least commonly used in any instructional material I've seen. 2 knees are very useful (C->B and A->Bb are extremely common) and if you have a D on top, almost everyone here will recommend a 3rd knee w/ C to C#.

You may want to add pedal 4 later. But if you don't have it to begin with, you may never miss it.
I think b0b is a big fan of pedal 4 so I'm curious to see what he thinks.

John Poston · From: Albuquerque, NM, USA

And about putting a pedal on a knee - I see a lot of people moving pedal 6 to a knee. 5+7 is used all the time and 6 is used with both so if you really want your right foot on the volume pedal you might consider it.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Pedal 4 (which would be pedal 1 in your case) is essential for simulating E9th licks on the C6th. I wouldn't abandon it on a single neck guitar, because you might need those licks now and then.

I think that pedal 8 is the best candidate for a knee lever, if you must move a pedal to a lever.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

On my tuning which is the same as used by Terry Crisp and others (F on the bottom and an additional D string in the middle), I only use 3 pedals normally. I'd go for 3 pedals and 4 or 5 knees.

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www.tyack.com

David Doggett · Posted 16 Jun 2005 1:40 pm

Here is the modern standard for C6 established by Buddy Emmons. Neither his C6 pedals or levers were dictated by his E9, because his left knee levers were on a center cluster dedicated to the C6 neck, and his right levers acted on both necks independently.

		LKL	LKR						RKL	RKR


				4	5	6	7	8		


1	D							Eb		


2	E					F				


3	C						D		B	Db


4	A	Ab	Bb	B			B			


5	G				Gb					


6	E					Eb				


7	C							Db		Db


8	A			B						


9	F				Gb			E		


10	C				D			A

If you just want to play traditional Western Swing, you could start without any knee levers except for RKL, because that is what most D10 8&4 had through the '60s for the C6 neck.

However, the other knee levers were demonstrated by BE to be useful for modern jazz and bebop. Notice that BE's C6 knee levers raise and lower strings 3 and 4 by half steps, with lowers moving left and raises moving right, just the way the bar moves on the neck - very intuitive. These levers give a complete chromatic scale around the top of the C chord - very useful for melody work over a chord. This also fits with the fact that knee levers are faster to use than pedals for melody lines. Was he a genius or what? I would not try to out think BE on C6 setup.

So if you want to start with traditional Western Swing, get all the pedals (with the possible exception of pedal 4) and skimp on the knees. Add the other knees later, when you are ready to move on to modern jazz. If modern jazz is your main interest, skip pedal 4 and get all the knees you can.

Drew Howard · From: 48854

What Mr. Doggett said

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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden D-10 8/8, Fessenden SD-12 5/5 (Ext E9), Magnatone S-8, N400's, BOSS RV-3

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I've moved pedal 7 and pedal 8 to knee levers. If I get ambitious enough, I want to put 7 back on the floor and move 6 to that lever. If I was starting out new with a single neck C6th, I would probably opt for the 4 pedal and 3 knee configuration.

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Carter D10 9p/10k, NV400

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

When I played a D–10, I had the standard #4pedal-change on a LKV and #7pedal-change on a LKL. I had nothing in place of #4pedal and #7pedal Raised the 4th & 8th also, but; only (½-tone)

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“Big John” Bechtel
’04 SD–10 Black Derby w/3 & 5 & Pad
’49-’50 Fender T–8 Custom
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web site

George Redmon · From: Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.

i second Mr Doggett, i can give you my set up Jon if you wish..i am using a C6th 12 string, 8 and 5..Pedals 4-8 are your basic "Standard" C6th set up...for instructional purposes if i were you, i would leave them at that..the other changes on my C6th, are actually E9th cops...my top 3 strings are Chromatic as a matter of fact.
I try not to discuss pedal set ups, because someone will always disagree as to what to put where..always..i use what works for me..and you will find that out as well. I got ideas from the pros, looked at many many different copedents..came up with a set up that gives me a little of everything.

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Whitney Single 12 8FL & 5 KN,keyless, dual changers Extended C6th, Webb Amp, Line6 PodXT, Goodrich Curly Chalker Volume Pedal, Match Bro, BJS Bar..I was keyless....when keyless wasn't cool....

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

On my C6th setup I have an F instead of the low C and a D in the middle (see numerous threads on this type of tuning, Terry Crisp uses it, and Buddy uses something similar). With this setup I really only use 3 pedals. I would go with 3 pedals and 4 or 5 knee levers.

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www.tyack.com

Jon James · From: Durham, NC, USA

This is very great feedback guys. I do appreciate it very much. It sounds like for my purposes I will go with the 4 pedals and three knees. Maybe put pedal 4 or pedal 6 temporarily on one of the levers so I can take full advantage of the instructional material, and figure out what sounds best to me. The worst case scenario would be having to add another pedal, which by then will be just fine if it is something I am very excited about. And this way I won't feel like I am wasting the money before I know what I want.

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