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Topic: Need guidance on buzzes/rattles |
D. Scheindlin
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 27 Aug 2017 8:54 am |
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Hi all,
I'll call myself a new pedal steel player... 28 years ago I had one for less than a year, learned a few things, and haven't really played since then.
Two weeks ago I got a brand new GFI Expo delivered from the factory. Been sitting down at it every day for anywhere from 10 - 90 minutes, depending on how busy I am!
Anyway, a few days ago I was playing (plugged into my amp at a moderate volume), when I noticed some buzzing that seems to be coming from the changer on the higher/plain strings as well as a rattle that seems to be coming from the pickup... I couldn't really tell through if I was hearing them through the amp or not, because I was hearing it from the steel itself (didn't have my headphones handy to test). The rattles and buzzing seem to happen especially when I play higher up the neck, say around/above the 12th fret. (Link to sound clip below)
So this morning I put on some headphones and I'm hearing some strange undertones and rattles. I recorded me plucking a few notes on the higher strings and above the 12th fret. Hoping I could get some of you experienced players to listen and tell me if this seems normal. At about :56 i engage the b/c pedals and there seems to be a more pronounced rattle/undertone when I pluck the strings.
Am I over-listening/over-thinking? It doesn't seem as clean to my ears as it should. And I realize that in a band situation a lot of that will disappear in the mix, but what about on quieter stuff or solo stuff?
Would love some opinions. Obviously, I spent a lot of money and want to make sure the steel is behaving as it should and pleasing to the ears...
http://goo.gl/y4tZiq
Last edited by D. Scheindlin on 27 Aug 2017 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 27 Aug 2017 10:17 am
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Can't get where you want us to go for some reason..
Anyway, 90% of the noises and weirdness you are experiencing are common to new players.. I doubt its the guitar, but it is possible I suppose.. You need a bit of downward pressure on the bar, a GOOD round and slick bar, I use 7/8...Also i have seen so many new players get all kind of buzzes, rattles, scrapes, squawks and squigets that I could never duplicate if I tried.
Its always because of improper hand and finger technique on both hands.. Amazing what strange noises can happen, and the horrors that can come forth from a great instrument!... Is there a good experienced player nearby that you know that would take 20 minutes to sit down and play your rig?.. If it sounds good with an experienced player at the helm, it IS good.. Thats how I would proceed, get a good player to play it, and LISTEN to it... Tone IS in the hands.. Good tone, and sadly, bad tone as well... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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D. Scheindlin
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 27 Aug 2017 10:54 am
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Thanks Bob. Try link below.
At any rate, I should qualify my post by saying I have played lap steel on and off over the years so I have lots of experience with a bar and finger picking, including a 7/8, which is what I'm using. Now, I'm not telling you I think my technique is perfect, but I'm confident that what's happening isn't a technique issue.
http://goo.gl/y4tZiq |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 27 Aug 2017 11:05 am
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| I've had s ton of high and low end pedal steels. All of them had string buzz, some when new and some developed it after a few years of wear. Listening through headphones greatly magnified the string overtones and buzzes. I've just learned to ignore them as they are rarely audible on a recording or in a band situation. Put on some headphones and listen to pro steel player's recording and you'll occasionally hear some buzzing. A few times I've had a bad string or changer flat spot or groove cause severe buzzing that had to be remedied. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 27 Aug 2017 12:03 pm
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I only hear a normal amount of string sizzle on the recording. Annoying, yes, but most psgs do that. You can mask it a little by turning down the high end on the amp. It also becomes less offensive with a little reverb.
If it gets worse, you'll need to change strings and redress the tops of the changer fingers to get rid of the grooves. But this is a brand new guitar so you're a year or two from needing to consider that.
If there is an actual rattle, try turning off the amp and then try to pinpoint the exact location of the rattle acoustically.
Don't forget to check the roller nuts and the small length of string in the keyhead (that produces loud overtones). Use a free hand to press on various strings, rollers, the pickup, etc, to find the offending part. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 27 Aug 2017 12:38 pm
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Listening via headphones I can hear subharmonics / beats, which may be unwanted but are quite normal sounds for a PSG.
Strings also sound a bit shrill at times, which usually is the result of weak bar and picking technique. Some string brands/types tend to sound more shrill than others, but more bar pressure and firmer picking should pretty much eliminate shrillness unless the strings are from a bad batch.
Try recording some real playing (a simple tune or something) for us to listen to, so we can get a proper impression of the PSG. Turn the amp up to get some feedback into the PSG, as the GFI is good at sustaining notes on feedback and not so good without.
Lastly: it is my personal experience that a GFI doesn't sound very clean with the SIT strings they usually recommend for it. So let us know what strings you have on it. |
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D. Scheindlin
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 27 Aug 2017 7:16 pm
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| Thanks Georg. I am using the factory SIT strings. And I'm having a very tough time getting it in proper tune. Weak bar and picking technique - possibly, but I generally am comfortable enough with both (particularly the bar). I'll try and record something when I have time this week. I think I'll also pick up a different set of strings.... |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 28 Aug 2017 2:03 am
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| We are using George L's (or GHS SS wound) strings on my wife's GFI Expo S-10. Not noticing any unusual sounds, overtones, rattles, etc. Pretty solid. The only time we get any "bad" sounds is if my wife isn't holding the bar down properly. |
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Ken Boi
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2017 5:53 am Re: Need guidance on buzzes/rattles
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| D. Scheindlin wrote: |
Hi all,
....
Would love some opinions. Obviously, I spent a lot of money and want to make sure the steel is behaving as it should and pleasing to the ears...
http://goo.gl/y4tZiq |
I am far from the experience level of most on this forum. Listening to your audio snippet, I only hear some slight overtones. Maybe some notes clashing a bit. But no buzzes or anything abnormal. Maybe someone else can hear better than I. Just my $.02 |
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D. Scheindlin
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2017 12:56 pm
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| Ok thanks all. I think this is me over-listening. I'm hearing buzzing from the changer and a rattle from the pickup, and so I think I'm looking for something coming through the signal chain. Doesn't help that I'm listening direct through headphones. I'd prefer there not be the buzzing and rattling at all, but if it's not in the signal chain, that's the main thing. |
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D. Scheindlin
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2017 5:18 pm
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despite my last post, I'm still going to post a file of me playing something at least halfway melodic... two different snippets. That said my amp and mic are too close to the steel so there is plenty of foot pedal noise. Either way, I'm thinking everything is fine... except that I shouldn't share a recording of my two week old playing with anybody...
https://goo.gl/5gCHLw |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 29 Aug 2017 6:09 pm
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| D. Scheindlin wrote: |
[...] Either way, I'm thinking everything is fine... except that I shouldn't share a recording of my two week old playing with anybody...
https://goo.gl/5gCHLw |
Sounds fine - as expected for a GFI. And your playing is just a little hesitant - not bad after just two weeks.
Keep at it ... that GFI won't let you down. |
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