Copedent ideas needed!

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

OK, you country guys. I need your help with a new pedal set-up.

I’m building myself an SD10 from scratch, with 5 pedals and 5 knee levers. It’s nowhere near completion, but being prepared won’t hurt.

The chart below shows the part of the setup that is an absolute must; these changes are final, the rest are up to YOU!

• The usual ”A” and ”B” pedals will be on pedal 1 and pedal 2, leaving room for something new on pedals 0, 3 and 4.

• The E to Eb lower will be on LKR, the E to F raise will be on LKL.

• The E to F# on LKV eliminates the need for a ”C” pedal - or does it?

I play mostly straight classic country* backup, rarely rock or pop, no fancy big chords or jazz tunes, mainly within the ”comfort zone” - strings 3-4-5-6-8 (it’s pathetic, I know!).

Bearing this in mind, what changes do you think I need, in what order and what for?

Any ideas will be more than welcome. I know you’ve got ’em!

* Moe Bandy, Loretta Lynn, Gene Watson, George Jones, Buck Owens, Don Williams, Gary Stewart, Darrell McCall - that kind of stuff.

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´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ´76 Sho-Bud Pro III Custom SD10 4+5, Peavey Nashville 1000

[This message was edited by b0b on 12 May 2005 at 10:20 AM.]

Ron ! · Posted 11 May 2005 7:15 am

Per,

why not go for something like this? http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/003964.html
Could be worth checking out.

Ron

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

The knee lever that lowers the 2nd string to D is required for many country steel parts.

I had the left knees set up exactly like yours for two decades. I don't really endorse the E to F# lever it because it's non-standard, but I'm too used to it to live without it now.

That LKV makes another case for the 2nd string lower, though. I play a lot of licks with pedals down, the 2nd string lowered to D, just moving the vertical. These licks are at the II and V positions (5th and 10th frets in the key of G).

I lower the 2nd string on RKR. I think a lot of people have it in that position.

------------------

Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

Scott Swartz · From: St. Louis, MO

Here is my setup, the core pedals are the same as yours



_____________LKL1___LKL2____LKV____LKR_____P1_____P2_____P3_____P4______RKL____RKR_


1__F#_.013_______________________________________-CMP__________++G#________________


2__D#_.015__________--C#___________________-D__________________________________-D__


3__G#_.011_________________________________-G____________+A________________________


4__E__.014___+F____________++F#_________________________________________-D#________


5__B__.018_________________________-A#___________++C#______________________________


6__G#_.022w________________________________-G____________+A____--F#________________


7__F#_.026_____________________________________________________________________+G__


8__E__.030___+F____________++F#_________________________________________-D#________


9__D__.034___________-C#___________________________________________________________


10_B__.038_________________________-A#___________++C#______________________________

just swap LKR and RKL to match your desired location for the E - D# change.

Pedals 3 and 4 split for the G note. You could also change the B-A# change to a B to A change with a half stop for the A#, then you have the PF change with pedal 4 and the lever, similar to Tommy White's published setup.

[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 11 May 2005 at 09:14 AM.]

[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 11 May 2005 at 09:18 AM.]

[This message was edited by b0b on 12 May 2005 at 10:25 AM.]

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

Per...I could be wrong, but it seems to me that if you want that E-F# on your LKV, you'd better be absolutely sure you can activate it comfortably when using both A and B pedals at the same time. (that is if you want to replace the C pedal) I know that that change is good for "Mooney licks) In my case, I found that by adding another low E to F# on the 8th string to the C pedal like PF, that it made that pedal way more useful to me.

Let us know what you come up with!

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

Rick - you're right about the vertical. I put that change on my Legrande, but it feels very awkward to use, so I'm planning to fabricate a new lever.

On my old AVM S10, the vertical lever was perfectly placed and it felt very natural - and when it works well, it makes fluent playing so much easier. I learned to play on that setup and just can't do without that E-F# LKV.
--------------------
´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ´76 Sho-Bud Pro III Custom SD10 4+5, Peavey Nashville 1000

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Right. The vertical needs to fit you well. It should be just slightly above the knee when your foot is on the pedals, and you must be able to fully engage it with your toe pressing the pedals down.

I've found it to be a very natural move over the years. But since I'm sort of short, a lot of players can't sit in on my guitar. Their knee doesn't fit under the lever.

------------------

Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

C'mon guys, where are you all – there must be a few more ideas out there?
--------------------
´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ´76 Sho-Bud Pro III Custom SD10 4+5, Peavey Nashville 1000

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

Bumperooski!
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´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ´76 Sho-Bud Pro III Custom SD10 4+5, Peavey Nashville 1000

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I'm an advocate of 5+5 copedents. Here's how my E9th is configured:

If I were to start over, I'd put the first string F# to G raise on a lever. Too late in life to change now. Having it on pedal 0 works just fine, actually, but it would be easier to play with it on a lever.

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 15 May 2005 at 10:55 AM.]

Dustin Rigsby · From: Parts Unknown, Ohio

My Wilcox has a pretty good setup now. Pedals A,B,And C are standard emmons. I have the f lever on LKL, Jeff lever on LKV,F# to G# and D# to E(unison raises) on LKR, E to E flat on RKL, and second string half step lower on RKR. Most of what I use is on A & B pedals and RKL.

Hope that Helps.

------------------
D.S. Rigsby
Wilcox SD10 3&5
http://www.touchinglittlelives.org

Fred Justice · From: Mesa, Arizona

Per,im emailing you an attachment of my set up,it might shed some light on something new to try.

------------------
Fred Justice
www.fredjusticemusic.com
Rains Steel Guitars

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

Thanks guys!
--------------------
´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ´76 Sho-Bud Pro III Custom SD10 4+5, Peavey Nashville 1000

Buck Dilly · From: Branchville, NJ, USA * R.I.P.

I would start with an SD-12 for your SD10. Once you get used to those two low notes you will never look back.

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

I see your point, Buck, but for now 10 strings is all I need. A 12-string universal (with the changer at the nut end) will be my next project, if I ever get this one finished and working properly.
--------------------
´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ´76 Sho-Bud Pro III Custom SD10 4+5, Peavey Nashville 1000

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

I'd put the pedal C change [E-F#; B-C#] on your pedal 4. It's probably Lloyd Green's most famous change as to how he gets those sounds and licks; There are a lot of mashing style licks that you can not duplicate with the E-F# lever.
I use the C pedal quite a bit. It's a great change.

Listen to "Sweetheart Of The Rodeo", for example, and you'll hear the B-C combo all over the place.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I can cop those Lloyd Green licks with my vertical F# lever. It's not as easy as "mashing" the C pedal, but it can be done.

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