Question for Reese about my MSA D-12...

Rich Currier · From: Woodland Park, CO USA

Mr. Anderson...

Several months ago you mentioned that my 1976 Classic D-12 (Serial #2C-5279) came from the factory with 10 pedals & 4 knee levers.
My question has to do with the original factory setup. When the guitar had 10 pedals, were the A/B/C (E9th) pedals still positioned at the far left..? And, if so, were pedals 9 & 10 connected at all..? It appears from the online owners manual that they weren't.

My guitar has no pulls connected to pedal 1 and pedal 2 only lowers string 12 (E) 2 steps (to C) on the front neck.
Pedals 3 thru 10 follow, generally, the standard E9th & C6th convention. I was just wondering if someone had shifted everything to the right for some unknown reason, or is this an accepted change made by folks with more pedals.

I was contemplating shifting the A/B/C pedals to the left 1 place, but leaving open pedals 1 & 5 for additional E9th changes and leaving the C6th pedals where they are now.
Perhaps other players with 9+ pedals have some suggestions, as well...

I'm only moderately confused by this. I guess I'm wondering what the rest of the world is doing under similar circumstances...

Thanks for any input.

Rich Currier
Sho~Bud LDG
MSA Classic D-12

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Rich, I have a close cousin of yours, a tobacco brown MSA D-12, #2C5101. Mine has 10 pedals. I'm pretty sure that the normal 8 pedal setup starts in the 2nd from left spot on the pedal rack, allowing a pedal to be added at either or both ends. My "zero pedal" is the far left first pedal, then A-B-C, then a non-standard C6 pedal, then the standard 5 C6 pedals.
A-B-C are quite comfortable for me where they are, zero is just a stretchy "tap" away. My zero is B's > Bb on this guitar; on my Mullen D-12 I changed it to half the Franklin change, both B's > A, and have the B's lowering on my LKV, like most folks. I think it's a better setup.

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E9 lessons
Mullen D-12/MSA D-12/Sho-Bud Pro 1 S-12/Melobar/Webb/Profex II

Reece Anderson · From: Keller Texas USA, R.I.P.

Rich....Since setup information is no longer available I can't say with certainty what the pedal location was at the time of production.

I have to believe the setup has been dramatically changed to accomodate the first two pedals. I don't recall ever seeing anything like that, but please remember, we're talking about thousands of guitars and many years ago.

I believe you will find your guitar will accomodate whatever you ultimately desire to put on it.

Thank you for being part of the MSA family.

Rich Currier · From: Woodland Park, CO USA

John,

Having the A/B/C pedals start in the second position from the left sounds logical enough & I think I'll move them over.
You mention using the zero pedal to lower the B's a half step. What does that get you..? I don't have that change on either the MSA or my LDG.
Speaking of the Franklin change, since I don't have that on any of my guitars, what is the net result of incorporating that change..?
Is it a different inversion of a chord, or does it make for easier single note scale runs..? Inquiring minds and all.....
Thanks for the reply.

Mr. Anderson,

Thanks for the insight. I know specific info on one guitar won't be available, I was just curious if the D12's (or any double neck) were configured differently if they had more than 8 pedals.
I think you are correct, though, when you say it looks like this one was modified. The A/B/C pedals were different enough that I can't play the E9th neck until I change it back to factory specs.
For the most part I've been using the C6th neck for a western swing group I'm playing with & it sounds & plays great. Thanks for building it (and waiting 30 years for me to pick it up)...

Rich Currier
Sho~Bud LDG
MSA Classic D-12

Chick Donner · From: North Ridgeville, OH USA

My 67 Zane Beck has 10 floor, and the first pedal drops the B's (5 & 10) on the E9th. 2 3 & 4 are the "standard" e9th. 5 raises the A's on C6th (same as 4 on most); 6 drops both E's on C6th, a pedal I had to put on knee levers on both my Emmons guitars, and 7 thru 10 are "standard" C6th.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Rich Currier · From: Woodland Park, CO USA

Chick,

Looks like most folks have similar setups. I'm now in the process of moving my A/B/C pedals to 2, 3 & 4.
I don't have the parts right now to attach anything to pedal 1, but I will be doing something with pedal 5.
At this point, I don't know if it will be E9th or C6th, though...

Donny,

'pretty weird owner at sometime in it's past' You ain't kiddin'... The E9th neck was unusable the way the pedals were configured.
The C6th had no knee lever pulls connected, although the pedals were nearly stock. I'm going to need some parts for this thing.
Anybody know where they can be had..?

Thanks for the response guys...

Rich Currier
Sho~Bud LDG
MSA Classic D-12

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Rich,
My zero pedal lowering E9 B's to A, in combo with another KL that lowers string 6 G# to F#, yields a V chord from an open I (at zero fret, no bar, E to B). That's the main way you'll hear it used, and it's VERY pretty hitting pedals A&B for the IV chord, release to the I, drop to the V, then release back to I.

Since I had the G#>F# change on a KL already, the B's lowering a whole step is all I need, and I'm discovering some pretty chords using just the zero pedal. There's varying opinions on the forum about unifying or splitting this change up, but I vote for splitting, just more combinations and possibilities that way.

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E9 lessons
Mullen D-12/MSA D-12/Sho-Bud Pro 1 S-12/Melobar/Webb/Profex II

Rich Currier · From: Woodland Park, CO USA

John,

Your explanation of the zero pedal was just what I was looking for. I may have to check that one out. My current problem is that I don't have any pull rods that are long enough for that pedal.

I tore into the undercarriage a day or so back & succeeded in relocating the A/B/C pedals from positions 3,4 & 5 to 2,3 & 4. I also relocated the knee lever pulls to match my Lloyd Green. The E raises are now LKL & E lowers are RKL. I found that not only was I used to this configuration, having them both on one knee interrupted the flow from one to the other. There are occasions where I need to go from the 7th chord I get from raising the E's to the 7th I get with the A/B pedals & lowering the E's in order to resolve from a V chord to a I chord. It's easy when the knees are different, but not if they were on the same knee.

Thanks again,

Rich Currier
Sho~Bud LDG
MSA Classic D-12

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