Sho~bud crossover question.

Terry Barnett · From: Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada

Are the Baldwin crossover guitars so problematic that you should avoid them? I saw one for sale and at first I was a little unsure what I was looking at, then realized what it was...

I'm sure the forum has hashed this topic out many times before but I'd hate to pass up a bargain.

Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

If it's in nice shape, and it seems to all be there, you could pay $1000 bucks, give or take, and do ok.

They are different and can be unfriendly. Personally, I defeated the "crossover" on mine and set it up 3-2 on the E9 neck and 2-1 on the C6. No switching, just limited good things on both necks. I sacrificed the first pedal to create an F-lever.

What year is it? Do you have a picture? The very first ones are 23" scale and I would warn you away from one.
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RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

It's design fraught with problems, but, in theory, an interesting design.If Shot and David had spent more time developing, it might have worked. I had one, Play it on the E9th, wonderful sound. Flip the lever over to the C6th neck, wonderful sound. Flip it back to the E9th neck, and horribly out of tune. An interesting design, which with more development could have been good. Great sounding guitar for a boat anchor!
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Terry Barnett · From: Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada

Considering the difference between the Canadian and America dollar this would probably be selling at roughly $1000USD. I think your comment Rick, about defeating the crossover is interesting.
John, "a great sounding boat anchor"...that's funny and scary. How did you get out from under that boat anchor?
I do remember reading that Eddy Fulawka had some sort of similar mechanism to switch between necks that apparently worked well...was this an entirely different concept?

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Williams also made a crossover guitar that works very well. I bought two of them - a D-10X and a D-12X, both 5+5 with all pedals and knee levers switching so it was essentially 10+10. Whoa!

I think the model has been discontinued, but I bet if you're willing to pay enough, Bill would build another for you.
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Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

Kline also had one that was better. The Crossover was designed in 1966. The guitar was discontinued in 1970. The Fulawka and Kline designs were later, but I don't know how much later.

The guitar is built on a metal frame, magnesium and aluminum I think, and the wood is applied to that frame. Very heavy. Mine is 75 pounds in the case; the case is heavy, also.

I'm playing a 1970 Professional now, so my Crossover is put away. What I am going to do with it is use it as a non-pedal with some changes. Like a chord-changer from the early days of pedal steel.

If you buy it, you will like it. If you buy it, you will hate it. They are what they are, and that is, they are not a "modern" steel. They have limitations.

You can spend a thousand and remove the back neck and have knee levers put in. You could have 6 pedals and 5 knees for some sort of universal 10-string. But for $2000 you can have a round-front Professional for that...and it will be a lot better guitar.
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RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

By the way, I did have a Sho-Bud/Baldwin crossover before I ordered my first Williams. The crossover mechanism worked, but I didn't like the pedal action or the tone of the guitar. Guess I'm just not a Sho-Bud fan.
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Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

By today's economics, $1000 may be OK if it's in good shape, has the original case etc. I wouldn't pay a nickel more personally.

FWIW, I sold the one I had about 10-15 yrs. back for $800 IIRC, but it was in great shape, practically a one owner bedroom guitar.

I had one of these for a bit. It was really pretty and sounded good, but terribly heavy. All metal frame under the wood body, I believe and had 6 pedals and only 1 knee, so lacking for modern tunings by today's standards.

I never had any trouble with mine for the short time I played it, but I think the common problem is that if you weren't careful when you switched the crossover lever, a lot of stuff could fall out, or so I've been told.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Eddie Fulawka's crossover system was mentioned.
All that system did was change the right knee levers from one neck to the other. And, I should mention, it did an excellent job in doing so.
There were two knobs that extended out the back of the guitar, one for each knee lever.

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Willie Sims · From: PADUCAH, KY, USA

Any of you. Older folks remember the FENDER double 10 switchover that GENE FIELDS designed for Fender? I played one that he built for his brother. I knew GENE when he was growing up here and Paducah, Kentucky. I can't remember the name of the guitar, but he used to have one at the convention ever YEAR.
It was a well-designed steel guitar. I would really like to see the guitar again, since I played it for several years at a friends JAM session. It's been a long long time. And if I make it to tomorrow .
July 2, I'll be 91-year-old. Thanks to the forum and all members, I have enjoyed all of the feedback, especially our departed friend Chris Ivey. Willie SIMS

All dates

Terry Barnett · From: Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada

Sounds to me that you're all in agreement that if you buy one of these, you buy it cuz it's a vintage guitar, not because you're going to play it on a regular basis. Interesting that there have been a few successful adaptations made by other builders though. I'd be curious to see one of the Williams guitars you mentioned b0b...you wouldn't happen to have any photos?

Ken Pippus · From: Langford, BC, Canada

I think it's a really good concept. There was a Williams around which was beautiful, which I would have leapt at in a minute given the chance, which has since been converted to standard hardware.

The Crossover idea was a pretty good one. The ShoBud execution was god-awful.

Ken Pippus · From: Langford, BC, Canada

https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/012996.html

https://b0b.com/tunings/WilliamsD12.jpg

Terry Barnett · From: Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada

Thanks Ken...that was quick.

Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

Mine was good after I ripped out the crossover crap and used the extra racks to make it a D-10 with 7&4. First two pedals worked the E9 and the other 5 the C6th.
tone was not too great so I changed the pickup and it then played and sounded good, but soooooo heavy! Sold it in 1982.
Oh yes, put the E to F# on RKR where I still prefer it today.
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1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.

Larry Dahl · From: Melbourne, FL USA

I have a bedroom quality Crossover that I bought from a friend that had a music store a long time ago. I had, at that time, made several modifications, parts and additions with a buzzbox, torch, grinder, and drillpress to a pair of D10 and S10 Professionals. At that time I was going to bring it up to speed. Well, I never got around to it.
Flash forward many years.
Nowadays, I have been traveling back and forth to a girlfriends house an hour and a half away for several years.
The Crossover now resides there. It is nice to have a C6 with the standard pedals and the one knee always waiting.
I really like the action, the wide pedals and everything else that goes with it. I also years ago acquired another S10.
So I came to terms with the Crossover.
Not to mention all the spare parts.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

They were introduced in about 1968. The early Crossovers had cam shaped changers (longer radius) that seldom broke strings. The later ones had a shorter radius. Pedal action was a little stiff. I bought a new blue (pretty) crossover in late 1970 and got tired of braking strings and found a pair of older used changers for it. If I recall, the frame was cast and heavy. I never had any issues with the crossover mechanism. Traded it in at Scotty's in 1973 for a new MSA.
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

The crossover mechanism did work if used properly. The problem arose when someone threw the crossover lever with a pedal engaged. Something broke. I read somewhere that it happened on stage at the Opry and word got around.
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Chris Lucker · From: Los Angeles, California USA

Do a search on the forum when b0b was getting his first, I think,? Williams crossover made. There was extensive discussion.
Thank b0b for the discussion. I was never in the market for a crossover but the discussion was and still should be important.
Thank you for the Forum, b0b.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars.

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