Joaquin Murphey technique question

Rich Young · From: Georgetown, TX, USA

I have a question for you guys who've worked on Joaquin Murphey stuff.

I'm working on the steel solo on the Spade Cooley song Detour. I slowed it down to half speed and got all the notes, but can't figure out the right hand picking on the last lick -

G -----------------------------
E --------14-15----------------
C ------14-----15\14-----15----
A ----14------------14-----14--
G --14----------------14-----14
E -----------------------------
C -----------------------------
A -----------------------------

Slowing it down, it definitely sounds like it is picked, not a sweep, but I've tried several ways and none of them seem right. I know he had great technique, so that is a part of it, but on this one lick, nothing I've tried feels right.
Any ideas?
Thanks.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Rich, he picked with his thumb and first finger and he had unbelievable technique. I got to watch him play when he wasn't in his prime and I have no hope of playing like that in this lifetime. He literally just skimmed over the strings.



G-------------------


E--14-15------------


C-------15----------


A---------14--------


G-----------14--15\14


E-------------15----


C-------------------


A

Rich Young · From: Georgetown, TX, USA

Was it in an alternate picking style all the way through - thumb, finger, thumb, finger ....
That's a thing I do on the guitar - got it from a jazz teacher many years ago. Down, up, down, up all the time. Then you don't have to think of the right hand.
I tried this on this lick - it is possible, but it's gonna take some work!! Winking

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Rich
That's a G augmented lick going from the key of G in the solo back into C for the vocals. I play that lick with an ascending three-finger forward roll into a descending middle/thumb alternating pattern. I use it all the time with Cornell Hurd, one of my standard augmented licks.

But that's how I play it, never watched Murph play it. The only time I hung with him, he didn't feel like picking, and I just goofed around on the horn Chas built for him.

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Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Some people just have an amazing nervous system - they put in a lot of work of course, but their body meet's 'em half way. Mine puts out it's foot for me to trip over. Joaquin's technique on non-pedal is practically unmatched - and not just the picking but the right hand palm blocking. I just shake my head when I listen. The forward roll Herb mentioned makes a lot of sense to me. It was a big part of Chet Atkins fast lick technique. Strict alternate picking on everything seems to me to lend a slightly more mechanical edge to the phrasing. Chas - did Joaquin have any warm ups he always did or did he just sit down like Django and rip off amazing runs right off the bat?

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 14 October 2001 at 07:47 PM.]

Rich Young · From: Georgetown, TX, USA

Yea I've tried it several different ways and something is missing. I can get the licks for the rest of the solo, (though I can't get'm to sound like THAT Winking

, but this last one just eludes me.

Herb, I'm gonna have to come down and catch you guys again, maybe you can show me that roll thing. It'll give me an excuse to come down to Jovita's and drink Shiners. ;-)

I guess I'll keep working on it.
Thanks guys

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

This might be a typical use of that position in a 4-bar I-VI-ii-V progression in C.



    G7b9          C               A7+       


E_____________11--12______________________13


C___________11_______12__________________13_


A_________11___________12______________12___


G_______10_______________12__________12_____


E_____10___________________12______13_______


C___11______________________ 12--13_________


A_11________________________________________





        Dm7        G13      C


E________10_________12__12___________________


C_13_________________________12______________


A___12___________12__________12______________


G_____12______10_____________12______________


E___________10_______________12______________


C____________________________________________


A____________________________________________

The arpeggiated G7b9 (which could also be thought of as a B diminished) are passing chord pickup notes for the downbeat of the C chord on fret 12.

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chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Andy, I'm not aware of him doing any warm ups, Mike Johnstone may know. The thing of it was, he just knew where the notes were. Back in the '40s, he was always experimenting with different tuning systems and whatever was on the guitar that week was what he played the gig with. To me, that's just plain inconceivable.

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

The power of a Joaquin solo, in action:

One night at Jovita's, Dayna Wills was singing with Cornell Hurd's band, and she called out "Sugar Moon." I realized it was the same chord progression on the solo as Spade's "Troubled Over You," so I played Murph's solo for my ride. The solo got applause in the middle of the song. The solo got the ovation, incidentally, not the player.

I called Murph the next day and told him his note-for-note solo got an ovation last night. He paused and then said "...wow."

I was glad I made the call.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

quote:
I called Murph the next day and told him his note-for-note solo got an ovation last night. He paused and then
said "...wow." I was glad I made the call.

He was truly astonished that anyone outside of his immediate circle remembered who he was and was interested in his playing. Of course there were times when he didn't remember. I played him my version of 'Ya Ready' and he had no recollection of recording it. I was thinking, 'boy that's embarassing, I hacked it so bad he didn't recognize it'. So I played him his recording with Spade and his reply was 'I played that? Gee, that guy sounded pretty good."

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Amen
Another thing about his technique was that he had left hand bar control that bordered on prestidigitation.Perhaps this is because he was left-handed,but I was always mesmerized by watching his bar hand as it seemed he was drawing circles around the strings with the tip of his bar as he would rip through bebop lines.He did get very frustrated in later years as his picking ability slowed down.He still had brilliant musical ideas but was unable to translate them to his guitar quite as effortlessly as he once had.As far as warm-up excercises and such,nothing specific comes to mind - but I remember that he would shed some two bar bop lick for hours-usually something pretty outside,then days later he would still be shedding the same phrase and it was always something he was having trouble with.Just like everybody else,he always had things he was working on that were on the horizon of his ability.
Ironically,as much time as I spent watching him play,I never really tried to cop any of his licks or solos myself.I salute those who do so - but I guess just like copping the styles of Django or Jimi Hendrix,for me it just seemed too obvious - not to mention a tad futile.Plus,the real Zen of copping the true spirit of Joaquin is you should never emulate other steel players - not even him.That's what made him unique - he lifted ideas from horn players,piano players and even Accordian players and in doing so,he stood out from the pack right from the git-go.
That's the lesson I learned from Murph. -MJ-

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Yeah Herb I do know what you mean. And I guess the only thing that I ever really wanted to pick up from Murph was the way he would do those little dotted 32nd note trills and weave them into jazzy lines.I finally figured out that he got that from Benny Goodman records and whereas Benny did them with the trill key on his clarinet,Murph used the old Hawaiian technique of trilling between two strings.
Of course when I asked Murph to show me how he actually did it,which fingers to lead off with,where some examples might lay out on C6 etc,he acted like he didn't know what the hell I was talking about...... -MJ-

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I like the way he slips in first fret hammer trills, like they're a natural embellishment of the melody. You hear Buddy and other players doing it now and then, but it never sounds as "right" as when Joaquin does it.

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Yeah, MJ, those trills are exceptional. Sol Ho'opii had that kind of hand control too. I also love the way Murph phrased those ultra-fast triplet licks with such drive and swing. His solo on Careless Love, live with Tex Williams is one of my all time faves. What sticks with me most is the sound - on the live air checks that exist - of the audience and the band holding on to their hats as Joaquin blasts out of the gate with his solo as well as the audible thrill they clearly feel as he pulls off yet another jaw dropper.

Rich Young · From: Georgetown, TX, USA

Herb, I sat down with that lick, and played around with it and came up with some cool stuff. I use the 7b9 stuff all the time, but the A7+ - that's a new one for me. got some great ideas out of it.

Michael, I do agree somewhat, I certainly don't want to be a pale imitation. But I love learning a great players licks. I never can play the lick like them, but that's not what I'm looking for. But it makes me look at things differently and makes me see other possibilities. It all ends up sounding like me, anyway. ;-)

You can really hear the Benny Goodman influence, just that flat out swing feel. Some of his stuff even feels almost like bebop. When I get a little better, it might be interesting to try some Parker tunes. Any one done this on the nonpedal? Find any tuning that lent itself to that?

Dirk B · From: Harrisburg, MO, USA

Thanks for this post Rich -- this is a GREAT THREAD! I'm going home tonight to work on this solo too.

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Any tuning that you know your way around can be used on Parker tunes or other bebop stuff if you're concentrating on horn lines but 6th and 13th tunings seem to offer the most bang for the buck if you want a few chords as well.I get a lot of good out of Junior Brown's C6/7 tuning and if you put a D on top for a full 13th you could play a lot of what Emmons plays when he pulls his feet off the pedals and just rips.Murphey's C6Maj7/A7 is probably the most diabolically clever 8 string no pedal jazz tuning I know of.....but only when HE played it it seems....I would also look at the Leavett tuning and perhaps an extended version of that. And Tom Morrell's E13th 10 string no pedal tuning bears close examination as well - it's basically a 10 string pedal E9th tuning with no pedals and a couple of the top strings rearranged. -MJ-

Paul Graupp · From: Macon Ga USA

Took me a while to lay this out but just to save it; here is a JM intro taught to me by Johhnie Vaughn of Norman OK. Written here for C6th, key of D, he may have played it on A6th in another key.



G--9-----------8-----------7-----------


E--9-----9-----8-----8-----7-----7-----


C-----9--9--------8--8--------7--7-----


A-----------9-----------8-----------7--


G--------------------------------------


E--------------------------------------


>


>


G--2-------------------


E--2-----2-------------


C-----2--2-----1--2----


A-----------2----------


G--------------1--2----


E--------------1--2----

At speed, it is just a roll back and ties togeather. I use it for a song called Turner's Turnpike which is an Oklahoma song I have always liked. Now all I have to do is get WWBP housebroken so he can play it.

Regards, Paul

[This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 23 October 2001 at 09:40 AM.]

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