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Topic: Fender Princeton Reverb Blackface |
Chuck Blake
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2017 12:09 pm |
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I recently ran across a Princeton BF Reverb for sale. GREAT price that leads me to wonder.
Are there any issues I should look for? This appears original including the speaker which appeared to be a Jenson C10n. I plan on giving it a very, complete exam. I don't think the seller has a clue with regard to value.
On the original viewing, I saw something odd. Someone added an inline fuse on the speaker wire near the 1/4 male plug 
Any thoughts on this model amp is appreciated. And possible value. If I am able to buy it I may list it for sale, since I'm amp poor.
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2010 Rains 3x5 SD10, 2006 Rains 3x5 SD10 Powered by Quilter Tone Block 202 and 15' and 12' Custom Speaker cabs |
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ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 26 Apr 2017 12:58 pm
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If you are "amp poor" now, then selling it would make you even more poor. Do you mean you are amp rich, and already have too many?
Is this an original BF, or one of the reissues?
Almost all old amps (10+ years) should probably have a cap job done.
Make sure everything works. Check the reverb and tremolo. If these don't work, it could be a simple preamp tube. An easy thing to check before you buy.
Fuse in line with the speaker: I don't understand this, and my old Carvin has one as part of the factory design.
It's probably there to "save" the speaker, but I'd think that it actually creates a much bigger hazard.
If the fuse ever blows to save the speaker, then the amp would be running into an open load, which is a definite tube amp no-no. When I realized this, I got rid of the speaker fuse on my amp. Unless of course I'm missing something, which is impossible. ;>))
And I know you didn't ask, and it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, but......
You didn't say the price, or if it is an original or reissue, so it being a great price can't be determined.
Assuming it is an original, and has some collector value, if it were me, at this advanced stage of my life I think I'd let the seller know what it's worth, then let them decide if they want to give you a break on the price. Much the same way that I couldn't buy a 1959 Les Paul at a garage sale from some little old lady. Bad karma has a way of following you around. On the other hand, I do understand the thrill of scoring a good deal. Apologies for the sermon. |
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Chuck Blake
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2017 1:48 pm
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Ajm......"amp poor" just a figure of speech used sometimes to indicate needing another amp is like needing "another hole in my head", again just something said to indicate probably not really needed.
Original. ...not a reissue!
Thanks for re-cap advice. Checking reverb and tremelo on my list to do.
Fuse inline on speaker cable still baffling.
Finally I asked the seller why he was selling the amp so cheap and also commented that it was way under market value, his reply, " I need the money". Nough said on that subject!
And I appreciate your sermon, after all I asked. .....lol
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2010 Rains 3x5 SD10, 2006 Rains 3x5 SD10 Powered by Quilter Tone Block 202 and 15' and 12' Custom Speaker cabs |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 26 Apr 2017 6:45 pm
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Vintage guitar dealers are in the general $2K (+/- depending on several factors) price range for a blackface Princeton Reverb in excellent, original condition. Anything changed lowers it. There are a lot of things to look for - speaker, cabinet, grill cloth, but especially transformers.
A lot of blackface Princeton Reverbs have either Jensen (speaker code 220) or Oxford (speaker code 465) speakers. Code would look something like
220614 for Jensen made in 14th week of 1966
or
465732 for Oxford made in 32nd week of 1967.
Similar with transformers. A typical Schumacher transformer code would read something like
606-5-25 for a a Schumacher transformer built in the 25th week of 1965.
A Princeton Reverb has 3 transformers - power, output, and reverb driver. Original transformers should have date codes in the 64/65 - 67 range, and the part numbers should be 125P1B or 022772 (Power), 125A10B or 022913 (Output), and 125A20B or 022921 (reverb driver).
A speaker change just drops the value by the amount it would cost to replace it with a period-correct one (which might be a couple hundred). Re-tolexing devalues at least a few hundred dollars, perhaps more. Re-grilling not as much, but definitely some. But non-original transformers devalue quite a lot, and many buyers simply won't have an old Fender amp with replaced transformers - especially the output transformer.
Sometimes people replace the silverface face plate with a modern blackface plate. Or sometimes they put a blackface chassis into a later silverface-era box. So you need to check the date codes on the tube chart, as well as the serial number. Here's a good reference for that stuff:
http://www.vintagefenderamprepair.com/fender-date-codes/
You can generally tell a 60s box from a 70s box by the baffle - 60s are screwed-in, 70s are generally dadoed in.
Princeton Reverbs are killer amps for that classic blackface/silverface sound at a reasonable volume. Honestly, there's very little actual difference between blackface and silverface Princeton Reverbs but the price/value. Luckily, Fender didn't consider Champs, Princetons, or Deluxes "important enough" to mess with the dreaded silverface "improvements" foisted on the higher end models like the Super, Pro, and Twin in the 70s. The dadoed-in baffle is kind of a drag and there are a few things that got changed as they went through the 70s. But silverface Princeton Reverbs are great, and around 1/2-2/3 the price of a blackface, all other things equal. My current Princeton is a 74, and it is killer. I've had them from every era over the years.
If you get it, have it checked out by someone who knows what they're doing, and definitely lose the speaker fuse. The LAST thing you want is an open circuit between the output transformer and speaker - likely yielding a blown output transformer if you are cranking and the fuse blows. A tube amp can tolerate a dead short better than an open circuit, but I do NOT recommend either. |
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Chuck Blake
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2017 6:53 pm
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Thank you Dave for your info and knowledge. Just what I was asking for.
Chuck
_________________
2010 Rains 3x5 SD10, 2006 Rains 3x5 SD10 Powered by Quilter Tone Block 202 and 15' and 12' Custom Speaker cabs |
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Bill L. Wilson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2017 8:00 pm I Got Me One.
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I bought mine from one of my oldest guitar playing buddies down in East Texas last year. He bought it brand new in 1964 at McCord Music Co. in Dallas. The speaker was the only replaced part, as I had blown two of them in the mid '60's, the last one in '68. I paid him $1500bucks for the amp and he thru in a '65 Fender Tube Reverb unit. I did have the amp re-capped, put an Eminence Rajin Cajun speaker in it, and it sounds fantastic.
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2017 4:33 am
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| A fuse inline with a speaker lead is a great way to burn up the output transformer! If that fuse open while playing the output transformer primary has no place to send its load!! Get rid of that first. |
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Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2017 5:19 am
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| ajm wrote: |
If you are "amp poor" now, then selling it would make you even more poor. Do you mean you are amp rich, and already have too many?
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Dear AJ - In financial circles the term "house poor" means the person has adequate income but the person is spending more on their house than they can afford, not leaving enough income left over after making the house payment for retirement, investment, and other needed expenses. "Amp poor" doesn't exist in the dictionary, but the implication is that the gentleman has too many amps for his own good.
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Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500. |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2017 2:02 pm
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Great little amps - buy it. I think you mean "cash poor"
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--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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