| Author |
Topic: Builders -- question about wood |
Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
|
Posted 7 Apr 2005 9:55 am |
|
Jacaranda grows all over down here, how good would it be for a steel guitar body?
One website says Jacaranda is the same thing as Brazilian Rosewood. Is that true?[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 07 April 2005 at 11:22 AM.] |
|
|
 |
Mark Ardito
From:
Chicago, IL, USA
|
Posted 7 Apr 2005 11:05 am
|
|
Jim,
Where are you at in Mexico? I go fishing down in the Baja peninsula and we see HUGE Jacaranda trees down there. I remember seeing lots of carved items from Jacaranda but never saw any big stuff built from it. I am not sure, but I believe the wood is very unstable and has a lot of movement...that is why you just see carved items built from it.
The trees I see in Mexico are huge and have very bright purple flowers on them. Are these the same ones you see where you are? I have never heard it called Rosewood before...
Cheers!
Mark |
|
|
|
Mark Ardito
From:
Chicago, IL, USA
|
Posted 7 Apr 2005 11:54 am
|
|
I am still very interested in seeing a guitar built from Ipe wood. Ipe has recently been imported into the United States and it is amazing! Builders always talk about how they want the most stable/dense piece of wood they can find for guitars. This gives sustain and tone. Man o Man...Ipe is SUPER dense. If any builders out there wanted to make something different and exotic than I would recommend Ipe. The only down side is that the wood is so dense that it doesn't machine very well. EVERY screw you put into the wood MUST be predrilled with the right size tap or else you will snap off every screw you try and put into it. Also...the wood is rather "oily" to begin with so choice of finishes available are limited.
I would be very interested to hear a guitar built from Ipe.
It is very similar looking to Mahogany. Here is what it looks like...
Mark
------------------
Sho~Bud Pro I, Fender D-8 (C6&E13) http://www.darkmagneto.com
http://www.arditotech.com
[This message was edited by Mark Ardito on 07 April 2005 at 12:57 PM.] |
|
|
|
Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
|
Posted 7 Apr 2005 11:59 am
|
|
| Mark, I'm about 40 miles north of Mexico City, yes Jacaranda are those huge trees with purple blossoms. I've found several websites that say Jacaranda is also known as Rio Rosewood and one that says it's also called Brazilian Rosewood.... I've seen many acoustic guitars use Jacaranda for fingerboards and back and sides. |
|
|
|
Jackie Anderson
From:
Scarborough, ME
|
Posted 7 Apr 2005 12:58 pm
|
|
| I think Ipe is a species similar to walnut. It seems to have great potential for steel building, although "density" is not the key to what makes a good tonewood (see numerous other threads about this). I have an Ipe deck that just rings when you walk on it -- it's like walking on a marimba! |
|
|
|
Mark Ardito
From:
Chicago, IL, USA
|
Posted 7 Apr 2005 7:05 pm
|
|
Jack,
Well....I always heard that guitar builders looked for "stable" grain patterns and "density" of wood when cross cut. I am a weekend wood worker and see lots of different species. I would have to rate Ipe as the most dense I have EVER seen. This stuff is unreal...
Mark
------------------
Sho~Bud Pro I, Fender D-8 (C6&E13) http://www.darkmagneto.com
http://www.arditotech.com
|
|
|
|
J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
|
Posted 8 Apr 2005 10:12 am
|
|
You can leave untreated IPE outdoors on the ground and it won't rot for a long time. All the Ipe I have touched has a very very nice "knock". It's solid and it's available.
... J-D. |
|
|
|
Kevin Raymer
From:
Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA
|
Posted 8 Apr 2005 11:59 am
|
|
Mark,
Would you rate Ipe as harder and/or denser than purple heart ??
|
|
|
|
Kevin Raymer
From:
Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA
|
Posted 8 Apr 2005 12:01 pm
|
|
Any of you builder ever work with Lyptus ??
It's s'posed to be similiar in tonal qualities to mahagony, but finish like cherry.
I'm builing up a Tele body with a lyptus 5/4ths back and an ash 3/4ths top.
Will be interesting.
If it sounds good I may apply it to a PSG and see how that goes.
Kevin
|
|
|
|
Mark Ardito
From:
Chicago, IL, USA
|
Posted 8 Apr 2005 12:03 pm
|
|
Kevin,
Ipe is a lot denser than Purple Heart. Purple Heart is nice, but that purple color turns brown after time. The purple color is actually caused by oxidation of the wood. So by putting a finish on the wood will cause it to stop the oxidation process and thus it will turn a dark brown color. It is also pretty dense, but no where near Ipe.
Mark
------------------
Sho~Bud Pro I, Fender D-8 (C6&E13) http://www.darkmagneto.com
http://www.arditotech.com
|
|
|
|
Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
|
Posted 8 Apr 2005 12:32 pm
|
|
Ipe. Interesting.
Please see original post.
Anyone know anything about Jacaranda? |
|
|
|
John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 9 Apr 2005 5:26 pm
|
|
I just watched the show Woodworks. David Marks is amazing. He made a night stand out of English Sycamore.
It had a very wonderful curl to it. Certainly rivaling the best of the curly Maple that I've seen. Does anyone know about this species? Would this wood be suitable for a steel? JB |
|
|
|
Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
|
Posted 9 Apr 2005 5:43 pm
|
|
| b0b, please close this up. [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 09 April 2005 at 06:45 PM.] |
|
|
|
John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 9 Apr 2005 5:57 pm
|
|
| Oh, thanks. You mean I killed another thread? |
|
|
|
HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
|
Posted 9 Apr 2005 6:20 pm
|
|
Electric jazz mandolinist Michael Lambert's last cd is titled "Jacaranda." I had no idea what that meant until this thread.
I'm now wondering if his solid body electric mandolin is indeed made of Jacaranda wood. Maybe I'll pose that question on Mandolin Cafe. |
|
|
|
Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
|
Posted 9 Apr 2005 6:59 pm
|
|
| Hope you get more relevant responses than I did! |
|
|
|
Farris Currie
From:
Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
|
Posted 9 Apr 2005 7:33 pm
|
|
| Jim im sorry but i don't know nothing about that wood at all,sounds real interesting tho. like to know more about it. farris |
|
|
|
Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
|
Posted 9 Apr 2005 7:57 pm
|
|
Jim, I have no idea if Jacaranda would be good for a steel. I know this is a useless post but at least it's on topic!  |
|
|
|
Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
|
Posted 9 Apr 2005 9:29 pm
|
|
Thanks Jim, Farris & Howard!  [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 10 April 2005 at 12:48 AM.] |
|
|
|
Ron !
|
|
|
|
Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
|
Posted 10 Apr 2005 12:55 am
|
|
Time for a serious answer to a serious question, methinks.
Jim, jacaranda is a popular name for Brazilian rosewood of the species dalbergia nigra. There are several other dalbergias - east Indian rosewood, Honduran rosewood, Madagascar rosewwod, south-east Indian rosewood etc - but the nigra is the real Rio Jacaranda, somtimes also known as Palisander, and is a protected species.
I have never heard of dalbergia nigra growing in Mexico, probably what is called jacaranda there is some other kind of rosewood. There's a beautiful Mexican rosewood called Palo Escrito, not at all expensive but is supposed to be a really good tonewood.
Some more info here:
http://www.alliedlutherie.com/rosewoods.htm
or
http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/Secondproducthead.asp?CategoryName=+Backs+and+Sides
--------------------
´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ´76 Sho-Bud Pro III Custom SD10 4+5, Peavey Nashville 1000
|
|
|
|
Mark Ardito
From:
Chicago, IL, USA
|
Posted 10 Apr 2005 6:09 am
|
|
Jim,
I have a wood reference book at home which is considered the "bible" for determining wood. It mentions almost nothing about Jacaranda. Just that it grows in Central and South America and that it belongs to the Bignoniaceae family and it's name is Jacaranda mimosifolia.
Mentions nothing about stability, growth, density or other attributes. In Mexico you may find a lumber yard. Since the tree is native to Central America you may find some information from them.
Best of Luck...sorry about the Ipe comments. 
Mark
------------------
Sho~Bud Pro I, Fender D-8 (C6&E13) http://www.darkmagneto.com
http://www.arditotech.com
|
|
|
|
Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
|
Posted 10 Apr 2005 11:43 am
|
|
Thanks for the great info guys. Reason I was thinking of Jacaranda is because it grows all over down here so I thought it might be relatively inexpensive, whereas in the U.S. maple is more common and excellent for steels, it might be expensive here.
I had an old Sho-Bud permanent that had a rosewood apron and maple necks, it looked and sounded fantastic. I was thinking about kinda recreating that kind of steel cabinet, with a Jacaranda cabinet and maple necks. Before I went looking for Jacaranda planks, I wanted to get some knowledgable opinions on it.
By the way, I'm also not completely ignorant on wood, my dad has been a custom cabinetmaker and fine furniture builder since before I was born, had his shop in the back 3 acres behind our house when I grew up. My first job at 10 years old was working with him and later when I was a full-time musician (much to my dad's disappointment) whenever I'd need a break or the band would fall apart, I'd go back and work with him a while. My dad built an electric guitar in the early '50's, neck and body all carved out of one solid piece of birch. He and my uncle built many regular electric guitars and steels during the '60's and '70's.
I think it's time for me to build a steel, I still remember how to build things, doubt if I could ever forget, but I don't remember ever using Jacaranda and never learned much of anything about it.
Thanks again for the info. Sorry to have become impatient with the topic drift, but...you understand.
[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 10 April 2005 at 12:48 PM.] |
|
|
|
Les Pierce
From:
Shreveport, LA
|
Posted 10 Apr 2005 3:11 pm
|
|
All of them with the fabulous "Phelptone" pickups, no doubt
I used to wonder about the mesquite wood that grew all over South Texas, too.
Sounds like you'd be one of very few, (if not the only), steel builder in your part of Mexico.
Take care, Jim & Alicia,
Les
------------------
Strat,Tele
Dekley S-10
[This message was edited by Les Pierce on 10 April 2005 at 04:12 PM.] |
|
|
|
Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
|
Posted 10 Apr 2005 3:56 pm
|
|
Hi Les, nice to see you! I know I still owe you an email or two, I'm getting way behind.
Now that I've gotten some good info on Jacaranda, (thanks Per!) we can drift the topic all over the place, besides, the topic starter has that right, right? 
Well, that's Pheltone pickup, not Phelptone!
The birch guitar I mentioned had a single DeArmond on it in the neck position, kinda like to take that one and put it on something...but I can't rob it off my Dad's first guitar.
I remember we put 3 of those Strat-type Pheltones on your Strat when we were playing in Salem, didn't we? What ever happened to them, did you keep them? If you liked them, post it here and if not, send me an email, ha ha!
My Uncle Bud and Cousin Tom really got into building guitars, steels, pickups, amps, you name it, they built it from scratch. Don't know if I told you Les, but they're sending me all my Uncles steels and parts, pickups, etc. So far they've sent the same Diana Oahu lapsteel my uncle loaned me when I was about 11, I've been having fun with it and posted my first attempt to play non-pedal steel in 30 years in No Peddlers, if you care to check it, Panhandle Rag.
Those Pheltone pickups, by the way; the early ones weren't real good but they really got them down later. My uncle also has developed the only electric guitar/steel type pickup I know of that works by capacitance, not by magnetism. It was his last developement and he's also sending me the lot of them. He says it has a wider freq. response than any magnetic pickup. I can't wait to record something with it.
Back on topic just a bit;
How 'bout that Ipe wood? -- I mean Jacaranda?
Thanks for all the help, guys. I'll let you know what I end up coming up with.
[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 10 April 2005 at 05:48 PM.] |
|
|
|
