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Topic: The importance of body posture |
Mitch Ellis
From:
Collins, Mississippi USA
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Posted 9 Apr 2017 8:40 am |
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Hello everybody,
I would like your thoughts on something. There have been many threads on seat height, keeping your right arm at your side, setting toward the right-hand end of the steel, and so on. But I have seen pictures and videos of Emmons, Hughey, Brumley, and other top-end players setting in metal folding chairs, on top of wooden crates, amplifiers, or just plain straight chairs. I saw a photo of Emmons in his younger days playing steel, and he was setting in a metal folding chair and the volume pedal and his right foot were not even under the steel. In the videos that I mentioned, the right arm was sometimes tucked in, and sometimes not(Tom Brumley). Some exceptional players set at the center of the steel instead of toward the right-hand end. But they are ALL top-shelf players. So considering this, is "correct" body position and posture really that important or is it just "whatever is comfortable"? thank you.
Mitch |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 9 Apr 2017 10:04 am Re: The importance of body posture
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| Mitch Ellis wrote: |
| is it just "whatever is comfortable"? |
It's whatever's going to be comfortable in 30, 40 or 50 years' time. The body can tolerate an unsuitable posture for a while, then it starts to complain. I don't care where my right elbow is (in fact it's a fair way out) but what I do care about is that my wrist is straight so that the tendons that work those fingers relentlessly have a clear passage throuhg the carpal tunnels. I've been at it four years now and although I'm coming up 66 I have no problems there.
My other thought from watching videos is that some players actually move over to play C6 and then move back to play E9 again, so they can't be said to occupy one spot. Because I play a uni and I'm beginning to integrate the two tunings a bit, I tend to sit well to the right. I don't see anything wrong with either.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 9 Apr 2017 10:26 am
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1) when they were in the improvised seating, they were young. Young bodies are more tolerant of poor ergonomics.
2) They hadn't yet learned/established good technique. The instrument was in its infancy.
Notice they got better posture later.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 9 Apr 2017 1:20 pm
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No Pak-a Seats back then.
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 9 Apr 2017 4:21 pm
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It's not just seating and posture. For almost any "must do" part of generally accepted steel practice, you can find some monster player who does it "wrong".
We are all made differently, with different ratios of arm length, torso length and everything else. So if something just plain does not work for you, maybe a slightly modified approach will pay dividends.
I would suggest any deviations from "generally accepted practice" be made because you are having a problem and it seems like that would help, NOT just because you saw Emmons/Mooney/Brumley or somebody do it that way. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 9 Apr 2017 4:52 pm Re: The importance of body posture
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| Mitch Ellis wrote: |
| is it just "whatever is comfortable"? |
It's whatever's going to be comfortable in 30, 40 or 50 years' time. |
So I have to consider what'll be comfortable when I'm 96, 106, or 116 years old?   |
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Mitch Ellis
From:
Collins, Mississippi USA
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Posted 9 Apr 2017 6:20 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
Notice they got better posture later. |
Well.....now that you've mentioned it, yes they did. I sure feel stupid.  I can't believe that I have never thought of that. (Duh) That one sentence, Lane, blow's my entire theory out of the water. Thanks for the eye-opener.
Mitch |
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Bruce Derr
From:
Lee, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 9 Apr 2017 7:41 pm Re: The importance of body posture
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| Mitch Ellis wrote: |
| I saw a photo of Emmons in his younger days playing steel, and he was setting in a metal folding chair and the volume pedal and his right foot were not even under the steel. |
That was only because Buddy's Bigsby was too short for him, from what I've read. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 10 Apr 2017 12:41 am Re: The importance of body posture
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| Brint Hannay wrote: |
| Ian Rae wrote: |
| Mitch Ellis wrote: |
| is it just "whatever is comfortable"? |
It's whatever's going to be comfortable in 30, 40 or 50 years' time. |
So I have to consider what'll be comfortable when I'm 96, 106, or 116 years old? |
When I wrote that I was thinking of the young Buddy Emmons, but I'm 66 too and I stand by every word!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 10 Apr 2017 6:52 am
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I think I'd recommend having a chiropractor/osteopath/sports medicine practitioner look at your playing posture if you ever have difficulty in sitting behind it for a few hours.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 10 Apr 2017 9:35 am
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My friend Richie Mintz, who's a musician as well as a Rolfing practitioner, is of the opinion that most steel players have been out of body alignment for years and that it's due in great degree to how we address the instrument sitting behind it and hunching over to play.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 10 Apr 2017 9:43 am
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| After 42 years of being a carpenter, with being on all fours, climbing ladders, working on roofs, carrying heavy loads and getting into all kinds of odd positions, my posture is shot to hell. I think I've lost an inch or two, when, I'm standing upright. However, the only thing that bothers me once in a while is my right hip joint. It gets a little painful while sitting and the only respite is to stand up and stretch it for a while. Hunching over the steel is natural for me nowadays. |
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Ben Elder
From:
La Crescenta, California, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2017 10:48 am
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I wasn't yet in my thirties when I got my first Sho-Bud Maverick and even then, the only position that felt comfortable--and would allow even a semblance of pedal manipulation and ankle motion--was sitting up high (~24" seat height as opposed to the accepted standard of 21"). I raise the steels 2" and frankly, I'm no longer concerned if my forearms and thighs aren't parallel to the ground: I physically can't play standard and parallel. (Not that a six-hour gig will ever be a concern of mine.) If I have to extend the rear legs and tilt the body forward, I'll do that too. (Thanks, Rick Schmidt, for making that look and sound elegant.)
Before I was disabused of the notion that anything involving pedal steels is standardized, I was instructed, as if it were one of the Top 5 Commandments--that my navel had to line up precisely with the 12th fret.
Dogma, particularly pertaining to physical alignment, hasn't been particularly helpful in trying to wrestle these beasts. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 10 Apr 2017 12:38 pm
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agree about dogma not being helpful. However, some key spots demonstrate why it exists.
Looking at Rick Schmidt, he seems to be well-stacked on the seat, through the abdomen and chest up to the shoulders, which are relaxed.
As a result, the upper arms and forearms are relaxed, and so will be the wrists. I think on a new video he posted, you can see that the hands
are relaxed. What closes the carpal tunnel is muscle tension. Too much and you lose dynamic range
Having the wrists straight and relaxed, as Ian assures, will mitigate carpal tunnel syndrome. Proper posture--
a firm seat, relaxed stomach, relaxed shoulders--provides the stance that will benefit the wrists, but I wouldn't focus on them.
Raising the back of the steel looks functional to me. Forearms don't have to be parallel with the ground, just straight through the wrists. Sounds like the adjustment to make on psg. |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 11 Apr 2017 12:01 am
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Besides my terrible posture I have found that I get really bad leg cramps from years of steel playing. It makes it very difficult to take plane trips. My wife got me yoga lessons and it helps quite a bit. I thought I would hate it but it does the trick. Turns out yoga is very popular in Texas and all sorts of people go. I highly recommend trying it out if you want to get stronger, more aligned and relaxed.
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Bob |
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