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Topic: The "R" Sound |
Savell
From:
Slocomb, AL
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 12:05 pm |
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So I ventured into the forest of tone discontent. That place where the high notes were irritating and the low notes not smooth enough. It drove me insane to be playing along in the middle of a song and I could hear exactly where I wanted to go and I was confident of the fret and the string which would give me the note I was hearing in my head. I was tracing my steps in advance. My mind was at least 3 measures ahead of where we were at in the song. Okay, here it comes. Let’s go for it. And I slide up to the land of pedal steel perfection.
Oh crap! That didn’t sound anything like it did in my head. Yes, it was the right note. Yes, it was the right timing for the phrase. But NO! It was a dud. It did not sound the way I wanted it to sound. It sounded cheap, weak, well like poop. Tone, dad-gummit! TONE!
So I follow it up with a few tests. Just to make sure. Yes. There is that poop again. The aftermath of insanity just pulls me into a frenzy of mining for the fix. Here’s the check list…
Knob 1, knob 2, knob 3, knob 4, and on and on it goes.
New strings, first stainless, then nickel, then this brand, that brand
Trade the Nashville for a Cube 80X, for a Fender, for a Webb, for a Nashville
Pull the Goodrich out of the closet, plug back in the Hilton
Buy a Tubefex, Boss, Lexi
My God, will it ever end??????
It’s gotta be the guitar. I have now owned and played almost every brand (except Franklin – well I probably could have bought one for the money I have spent on all the others.) I’ve had ShoBud, Fessenden, Show Pro, Zum, Emmons PP & LG 2 & 3, JCH, Rittenberry, Mullens
I am staring at the guitar and I am thinking “What is there about the tone that is driving me crazy?†And then it hit me like a ton of bricks. It’s a stupid “Râ€. What? It’s a stupid “Râ€. I am hearing “Râ€s. Now I’m on the edge of committing myself to the funny house.
I begin to watch YouTube videos. One right after the other. First one, there it is. “Râ€. Second one, there it is. Third one. There it is. Stupid “Râ€s everywhere. I watch Buddy, John, Doug, Jeff, even Joe on that everlasting Sierra. “R’s are spilling out on the floor all over the laptop. Now the room is vibrating with “Râ€s, capital “R’s.
I listen to CDs full of all the songs that made me want to play a pedal steel guitar since I was a kid. I want to cry. I have wasted my life savings trying to get rid of an “Râ€. It’s the darn “Râ€s.
Can somebody tell me how to get rid of the “R†sound? |
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Larry Carlson
From:
My Computer
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 12:10 pm
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That was a great post.
Thanks for putting it up. It made me laugh today.
Also, I am very sorry to hear about your "R's".
_________________
I have stuff.
I try to make music with it.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But I keep on trying. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 12:49 pm
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One question, what's an "R"?
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 12:49 pm
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😊
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe.
Last edited by Rick Barnhart on 3 Apr 2017 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jerry Recktenwald
From:
Louisville KY
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 12:59 pm
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First of all you have R around sound. Second of all you think you R ready to play the song which is Ring of fire but you R so far behind in playing. When you R caught up in the song they [ the band] R done playing the song. What I think will help you the most is to get some R&R and give it another try when you R ready to play again on a different night. R you getting it now?
_________________
If I couldn't play music I would go nut's.How do people go thru life and not have a hobby? life would be boring. |
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Savell
From:
Slocomb, AL
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 2:04 pm
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Yes, I hear the R sound in both, Buddy's and Hal's playing. Can I explain it..... No!
Can I do it? Yes, at times. But, not regularly. Does it have to do with how your picking hand is shaped? No, since Buddy and Hal have dis-similar shaping. But, I believe it has to do with your picking attack, plus smooth bar movement and timing. Which, take time and practice to achieve. Unfortunately, they're both gone and we can't pick their brains for the knowledge. I wish they were both still here. |
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Jim Bloomfield
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 2:22 pm
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| Quote: |
Can somebody tell me how to get rid of the “R†sound?
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Maybe play C6?
If buddy is getting an "R" sound how bad can it be?  |
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Savell
From:
Slocomb, AL
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 2:23 pm
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| Thank you John for hearing it and confirming it is there. I take it from your comment that you believe it is an aquired practice to produce it. With that being said, I would ask "Is it desirable?". I am having mixed emotions about that because I am not sure at this point whether I like it or not. If it is a requirement to have the wonderful tone we all like, then I would certainly want to continue it. But if it is distracting, I would want to rid it from the mix. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 2:35 pm
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On The video of Hal and Buddy playing...that is NOT the sound coming out of their amps....that is the stupid sound system eq speakers....too much high midrange...that's why you hear a ringing overtone sound....I guess "R" you seem to reference is that "overtone ring" sound you hear??? If you are getting that sound out of your amp....; that is easily fixed with some suggestions.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Kevin Fix
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 2:50 pm R,r,r,r,r,'ssssss
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| I hear the R's plain as day now that you mention it. For tone I went back to the basics about 10 years ago. I use the EQ settings on my Nashville 112 only. I did put the Fox Mods in last year. I recently this year am using Mr. Sarno's "Steel Guitar Black Box". Every time I play I notice something different in tone that is very good. Best tone I have ever heard over the 12th fret also. A lot of the R sound I hear coming from Hal and Buddy's amp has to do with their amp settings and their style of playing also. God Bless them both. |
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Kevin Fix
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 2:56 pm R,r,r,r,r,'ssssss
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| Ricky hit the nail on the head with the mid range settings. Hard to find a good sound man!!!When I play a show where there is a sound system you have to educate some of these guys sometime. |
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Savell
From:
Slocomb, AL
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 2:59 pm
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Please do not take this as a negative against a single person's tone. But I hear it almost everywhere and sometimes not all the way through the song.
Another example with a completely different environment...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6-coLurZO8
Once I got it in my head, it is literally bugging the crap out of me.
BTW, Ricky, I have tried cutting the entire mids out of the amp and I still get that darn "R" in certain places of the neck. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 3:12 pm
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Yes but Savell; do you see that HUGE rack next to David in that video??? that is the sound being digitally recreated.
If you have anything digital that it between your guitar and your amp; will/can cause a inconsistent real-tone.
Here's me playing my LDG with a old volume pot Shobud volume pedal; straight into a Fender twin; sound.(course this is the video; but it is me on steel and one of the producers of this CD.>
Do I have the "R"??
https://youtu.be/scaGSh9LxTA
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Kevin Fix
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 3:21 pm No R's.
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| Ricky, That is some beautiful playing there!!! I love the tone of the LDG. I owned one years ago. Brings back very good memories of tone! James Moorhead, God Bless His soul. He was a good guy. He told me that he was building you a Sho Bud that was equipped with ball bearings. This was about 3 years ago. Are you playing it and how does it sound? |
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Savell
From:
Slocomb, AL
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 3:41 pm
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First off, let me say Ricky, your performance in the this video is the superb quality we have become familiar with from you.
Now at 2:01 & 3:57 it seems to lean toward the "R" but it never reaches the level of distraction I hear in most.
I do use a Hilton volume pedal and I have tried to tune out the tonal properties with the little screw adjustment in the center of the bottom of the pedal. I may not be as successful with that as I would like. |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 3:46 pm
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Somebody give him a kick in the R's! 
EDIT: I was contacted via PM by someone who took this attempt at levity the wrong way. I was aiming for a play on words, and I am neither offended myself. nor did I mean any offense to anyone else! 
Last edited by Don R Brown on 3 Apr 2017 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 4:08 pm
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Savell yes I hear that...and like you just said; it certainly doesn't reach a distraction level. Thank you for the kind words. Oh and I got rid of anything that plugs in other than the Amp.....and it helps.
Kevin; yes those are the original Single/Single fingers with what James did with the ball bearing in them and also in the pedals and in rollers.....it was the last great idea and thing he did before he passed...and I will NEVER take them out. And my LDG is the first Production one sent out...Lloyds is the first one made and mine is second. It is the only and last pedal steel guitar that I own and will play.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Larry Jamieson
From:
Walton, NY USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 5:00 pm
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Ricky, very nice playing in that video... Smooth, tasty,
excellent tone. Nice. |
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Tim Heidner
From:
Groves, TX
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 7:00 pm
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| I can't hear it. I guess I'm lucky, or tone deaf, one. |
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Mitch Ellis
From:
Collins, Mississippi USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 7:51 pm
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Savell,
I heard it too, in the links that you provided. I play through a Nashville 400 and I dialed out the "R" sound using the Mid and Shift control knobs. Another thing that may help is to move your hand a little farther away from the pick-up.
Mitch |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 8:54 pm
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Ok, y'all got me stumped, are R's good or bad. I lost this in the first post. All I hear are D's, maybe with an R.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Bill L. Wilson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 8:56 pm I Can't Hear It.
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| I'm not sure what you're hearing, but Ricky sounds fantastic. That Sho-Bud is a real keeper. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 4 Apr 2017 5:35 am Re: The
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Great description of a dramatic moment and existential nightmare.
| Savell wrote: |
| Can somebody tell me how to get rid of the “R†sound? |
| Henry Matthews wrote: |
| Ok, y'all got me stumped, are R's good or bad. |
It sounds like what you've got is what everybody wants.
It sounds like an change in equalization, as with a wah-wah pedal, a slight compression of part of the tone,
like you can make with your mouth, singing a tone and varying the mouth opening.
I resonate with John De Maille, a host of things--bar pressure, right hand movement, whether or not the player is leaning into the note--
that become parts of style less than consciously (after a while) and not affected by outboard equipment.
In the last chord of Not A Home, I hear several consonants (but really, they're vowel tones) that blend beautifully.
| Don R Brown wrote: |
Somebody give him a kick in the R's!
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I thought it was pretty funny for an American! Some people like their R's, some don't, I guess.
(Seems like the critic would post his review here and show his R's to everyone.)
After all, this is about language, how skillful the player is at shaping the tone. |
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Savell
From:
Slocomb, AL
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Posted 4 Apr 2017 6:32 am
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Ricky, I went back and looked at some of our videos. I noticed that we have one of the house PA speakers sitting right out in front of where I sit. We also mic the amps so the sound man can help balance the mix. I think you may have directed me to one of the issues causing the problem. I may be getting that overtone from the main house and not my amp.
I know I can not come close to your level of playing and I hesitate to put this of the forum. Some would say the "R"s are the least of my problemz. But I want to see if you hear the Rs in this video right about 2:03 into it.
https://youtu.be/__MkHmSJu64 |
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