| Author |
Topic: So where are all the new Student Models? |
bob drawbaugh
From:
scottsboro, al. usa
|
Posted 18 Mar 2017 6:05 am |
|
| After my trip to the Dallas show last weekend I've been reflecting on all the awesome steel guitars on display. The builders are really stepping things up these days. But, the one thing missing was a true student model. We need new blood in the steel guitar world, but the cost to out fit a new player is almost out of the question for most parents. I know most parents will do what ever it takes to get their child a guitar, I know I did. But by the time you buy a Steel guitar and amp you could buy two or three standard guitars, or any other insturment. I can see parents trying to steer the new player into another dierction. So, are there any builders building a true student model these days, Like the Sho-Bud Maverick or the MSA side Kick? |
|
|
 |
Roger Crawford
From:
Griffin, GA USA
|
Posted 18 Mar 2017 6:25 am
|
|
| Or the Carter Starter. It seems that there are some lesser expensive guitars available from Mullen, GFI, and Zum, but none in the six string price range. But, there is a lot of cost involved in building a pedal steel that six stringers don't encounter. And the lesser expensive models built today are really quite good and have become the go-to for fly dates by the pro players. It seems that the used market may be the way to go for beginners. Good luck, I know where you're coming from! |
|
|
|
Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
|
Posted 18 Mar 2017 7:04 am
|
|
To paraphrase the old saying, you can have it cheap or you can have it good - which do you want? The reason folks shy away from the older student models is that they just don't meet the expectations and needs of someone trying to learn these days.
And when you make something that is reasonably functional which will actually be of use to today's students, it will cost more - it's just a more complex instrument. |
|
|
|
bob drawbaugh
From:
scottsboro, al. usa
|
Posted 18 Mar 2017 7:58 am
|
|
| Don R Brown wrote: |
To paraphrase the old saying, you can have it cheap or you can have it good - which do you want? The reason folks shy away from the older student models is that they just don't meet the expectations and needs of someone trying to learn these days.
And when you make something that is reasonably functional which will actually be of use to today's students, it will cost more - it's just a more complex instrument. |
Don, well if I'm a parent of an 11 year old that thinks he wants to play steel, I want it cheap. because next week he may want to be an airplane pilot. That's what I did for my son. Herby wallace knew a guy that had a like new sho-bud maverick, that was my son's first guitar. Once I saw he was serious, I had no proplem shelling out the cash for a pro level guitar. His second guitar wasn't what I would call a pro guitar. It was a single neck BMI 3X3. It was one of the best sounding little guitars I've ever seen and it was less than a $1000. I traded the Maverick and got the BMI for $600.
I'm not a builder and I don't know what the answer is. But I know the cost will prevent a lot of kids form getting that early start that other insturments are getting.
Last edited by bob drawbaugh on 18 Mar 2017 9:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Al Wiegel
From:
Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 18 Mar 2017 8:17 am
|
|
I am just a beginner (70 years young) and on a pension. When I started looking at pedal steel a couple of years ago, I like many others, gave up hope of ever getting my hands on one. A fellow steel player recommended that I buy a Fessenden Six Shooter, give it a shot then if I felt I wanted to really get into the steel game, sell it and buy a good used instrument. It didn't take me long to end up with a 10 string. Builders like Fessenden, Hudson and Jackson, I think, recognize exactly what the wannabe is up against when it comes to buying that first PSG. Do I really want to spend $2k and find out that this isn't what I wanted to do? Say what you want about the quality of the Carter Starter and other entry PSG, without them, some of the great players out there may not have been in the game today. My 2 cents worth.
_________________
SX6 SX8 Boss Katana-50 MKII Roland Cube 10 |
|
|
|
Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
|
Posted 18 Mar 2017 9:01 am
|
|
The best guitar that I've seen is the Zum Stage One,However I'm not sure if I would call this a student guitar...affordable? 
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
|
|
|
bob drawbaugh
From:
scottsboro, al. usa
|
Posted 18 Mar 2017 9:15 am
|
|
| Roger Crawford wrote: |
| Or the Carter Starter. It seems that there are some lesser expensive guitars available from Mullen, GFI, and Zum, but none in the six string price range. But, there is a lot of cost involved in building a pedal steel that six stringers don't encounter. And the lesser expensive models built today are really quite good and have become the go-to for fly dates by the pro players. It seems that the used market may be the way to go for beginners. Good luck, I know where you're coming from! |
Roger, it was good seeing you in Dallas. Our new player, if he sticks with it, is all set. Between his Dad and myself we have more Steel guitar stuff than he could ever use.
I think we have some sort of sickness.  |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 18 Mar 2017 10:29 am
|
|
Well there is another way to look at this, and yes initial cost can be prohibitive , but thats not the only way to view it.
If we buy a nice Stage One used it's around $900. If we decide it ain't for us or our kids and sell it a year later ,in the same condition, it's still gonna sell for $900 . 100% or just about 100% return.
Try buying a Fender Squire made in China Guitar for right at $400 and selling it a year later for $400, you'll get more like $250 if you can even find a buyer which is unlikely.
The Stage One will sell in a NY minute.
I certainly get it that the initial $$$ outlay is steep or steeper, but we also have to look at the other end of the transaction. Most owners who pay for a nice Steel in the $2000 to $3000 range, or more, up to a point ...are NOT concerned about recouping their money if they decide to sell it.
The initial cash outlay could certainly be a concern but selling and getting the return is not. Unlike inexpensive China made guitars at Guitar Center or the Internet.
I'm not implying that Pedal Steel guitars are good investments but they are smart purchases as long as you buy right.
yep $1000 up front can be difficult, but most likely the same $1000 is returned on the backside too.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
|
Posted 18 Mar 2017 12:14 pm
|
|
| Tony Prior wrote: |
Well there is another way to look at this, and yes initial cost can be prohibitive , but thats not the only way to view it.
If we buy a nice Stage One used it's around $900. If we decide it ain't for us or our kids and sell it a year later ,in the same condition, it's still gonna sell for $900 . 100% or just about 100% return.
Try buying a Fender Squire made in China Guitar for right at $400 and selling it a year later for $400, you'll get more like $250 if you can even find a buyer which is unlikely.
|
But why would't you apply the same logic to buying the Fender Squier? Buy one of those used for $200 or whatever they go for and also sell it for about the same? |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 19 Mar 2017 2:05 am
|
|
| Jeff Mead wrote: |
But why would't you apply the same logic to buying the Fender Squier? Buy one of those used for $200 or whatever they go for and also sell it for about the same? |
Maybe you can, but the markets and stores are flooded with people trying to SELL their Squire guitars for $200, thousands of them. Then the next thing you know "Brand X guitar company" puts another low $$$ Instrument on the market, it's brand new !
And yes, at some point, probably near $200 ,it all becomes irrelevant. The guitar goes in the closet and never gets sold and the $200 doesn't effect our life. There may very well be people buying used $200 China guitars but I suspect not many.
But on the other hand, selling a $900 Stage One is probably the deal of the day because there may only be 1 or 2 at any given time. people come a knockin' ! A $900 Stage One, encore etc...is a no brainer while a $200 Squire is a maybe.
The point here is a $900 Pedal Steel can and will be resold easily, at the purchase price or very near, so the angst or concern of the $$$ return on initial cost is minimal.
Add that you can't BUY a used $200 Stage One or Encore which is the the entire point of discussion.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 19 Mar 2017 2:25 am
|
|
I wouldn't consider resale a point for buying a "student" model pedal steel. Price is, in most cases a major issue for purchasing a "student" or "beginner's" steel for many.
When I worked at a music store (Little Roy Wiggins' on lower Broadway in Nashville) we sold a lot of inexpensive "beginner's" guitars - probably more of them then the Grammer's or other brands in the store. The inexpensive guitars are what they wanted as they didn't want to put much $$ into a first guitar. They weren't concerned with resale. |
|
|
|
bob drawbaugh
From:
scottsboro, al. usa
|
Posted 19 Mar 2017 5:58 am
|
|
| Tony Prior wrote: |
Well there is another way to look at this, and yes initial cost can be prohibitive , but thats not the only way to view it.
If we buy a nice Stage One used it's around $900. If we decide it ain't for us or our kids and sell it a year later ,in the same condition, it's still gonna sell for $900 . 100% or just about 100% return.
Try buying a Fender Squire made in China Guitar for right at $400 and selling it a year later for $400, you'll get more like $250 if you can even find a buyer which is unlikely.
The Stage One will sell in a NY minute.
I certainly get it that the initial $$$ outlay is steep or steeper, but we also have to look at the other end of the transaction. Most owners who pay for a nice Steel in the $2000 to $3000 range, or more, up to a point ...are NOT concerned about recouping their money if they decide to sell it.
The initial cash outlay could certainly be a concern but selling and getting the return is not. Unlike inexpensive China made guitars at Guitar Center or the Internet.
I'm not implying that Pedal Steel guitars are good investments but they are smart purchases as long as you buy right.
yep $1000 up front can be difficult, but most likely the same $1000 is returned on the backside too. |
Tony, you do make a good point about the stage one. But, by the time you get a stage one, amp volume pedal your pushing 2K. In todays economy a lot of people would be discouraged from price alone. I was thinking something along the lines of a 2 pedal one knee guitar. One could learn the basics and really there is a ton of music to be made with such a setup. |
|
|
|
Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
|
Posted 19 Mar 2017 10:26 am
|
|
It's worse if your kid wants to be a bassoon player...My GF played in high school, and when she expressed a desire to return to it, I checked prices on Bassoons. New student models were in the $4K range, while pro models were upwards of $40K...all for a wooden tube with some holes in it.
I think buying a good one to start is a better option...a crummy student model will not inspire someone to learn, and I think a pro model would be easier to sell...after all, there are a lot more pro level players out there than there are people wanting to learn steel.
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 19 Mar 2017 11:35 am
|
|
While I agree the "pro" models are better or have more options, that is not many are seeking for a first pedal steel or beginner model.
I wouldn't think they are buying one with resale in mind or the prime consideration. |
|
|
|
Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
|
Posted 19 Mar 2017 11:52 am
|
|
| Rich Upright wrote: |
| prices on Bassoons. New student models were in the $4K range, while pro models were upwards of $40K |
Mine was only $600 and tho I felt a bit non compos mentis when I bought it, it has paid for itself many times over. |
|
|
|
steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
|
Posted 19 Mar 2017 12:47 pm
|
|
Bob, I think Tony's idea would work and for a total package for less than $2000. Used Stage One $900, Roland Cube GX or GXL for $300 volume pedal $75, bar $25 tuner ???? plus shipping (go Greyhound if possible). If you have to resale, you should be able to recoup most of that including shipping. What you do not recoup, has gone to giving your child a learning experience with pedal steel.
Think of it as an investment. Stevet |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 19 Mar 2017 2:08 pm
|
|
It's not really an idea, it's more of a soothing statement of sticker price. To me the op raised a good point of spending money only to learn that the student or child has lost interest ! So if they spend $900 which can be a lot no doubt, it may be "soothing" to know you can probably re-coup most of the $900 if the child or student decides harmonica is a better fit !
I am not suggesting that we buy a Steel for resale value or resale in mind, but I can say this with certainty, if we buy a used Stage One or Encore for $900 or so, whether we are aware or not, we can still sell it for $900 ! That part of the package came at no extra cost !
Oh and by the way, not really relevant to this discussion ,every instrument I buy regardless of price, my eye is always on re-sale value at some point . It's always a consideration.
Thats all I got.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
Last edited by Tony Prior on 19 Mar 2017 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
|
Posted 19 Mar 2017 2:10 pm
|
|
| bob drawbaugh wrote: |
| Don, well if I'm a parent of an 11 year old that thinks he wants to play steel, I want it cheap. because next week he may want to be an airplane pilot. |
Bob, if that's the case go buy him the best steel you can find, and hope he likes it, cause it's a darn sight cheaper than buying him an airplane will be! 
It's a tough call, and having raised kids I agree their interests change with the seasons. IMHO getting something like a Stage One will not only have better resale possibilities as other have said above, but also will give more enjoyable results and will hopefully keep the kid interested.
It's a tossup - too many things on the instrument can overwhelm the kid, something not good enough may not "set the hook" on his/her interest. |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 19 Mar 2017 10:13 pm
|
|
| The builders know their market. "New blood" in PSG world will happen when the instrument once again gains favor in popular music. Who is the Rusty Young or Sneaky Pete of the millennials? When young people see a young face behind an S10 and hear that amazing sound on a song by a real band that they can relate to, the builders will know their market has just expanded and demand for student models will explode. For now, there are probably more beginners like me who are at, over, or pushing 60. The money is not as big an issue as it is for the parents of an 11 year old, and neither is the problem of waning interest. |
|
|
|
Brett Day
From:
Pickens, SC
|
Posted 20 Mar 2017 9:37 am
|
|
| The Jackson Blackjack Custom is a wonderful steel guitar that's perfect for any level, including beginners. It's described as a professional guitar for players of all levels. |
|
|
|
Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
|
|
|
|
Joseph Rosser
From:
Kansas, Oklahoma, USA
|
Posted 21 Mar 2017 3:14 am
|
|
In 1964, I was in the 5th grade. I wanted to play the guitar like my father, but my hands were too small for the fretboard. Instead, I took lessons on an old dobro. I learned how to finger pick, use the bar and learned where the chords were. I took to it quickly. He bought a six string, 3 pedal steel. It had a great sound. At 18, I picked up bluegrass and old-style banjo. I'm 65 now and will always appreciate the investment he made in me. Last weekend, I bought a Zum Stage One from Doug Earnest. I've come full circle and am going back to my roots. Who knows what seeds you will plant and memories you will give your child at whatever the cost.
Joseph |
|
|
|
Joseph Rosser
From:
Kansas, Oklahoma, USA
|
Posted 21 Mar 2017 4:56 am
|
|
In 1964, I was in the 5th grade. I wanted to play the guitar like my father, but my hands were too small for the fretboard. Instead, I took lessons on an old dobro. I learned how to finger pick, use the bar and learned where the chords were. I took to it quickly. He bought a six string, 3 pedal steel. It had a great sound. At 18, I picked up bluegrass and old-style banjo. I'm 65 now and will always appreciate the investment he made in me. Last weekend, I bought a Zum Stage One from Doug Earnest. I've come full circle and am going back to my roots. Who knows what seeds you will plant and memories you will give your child at whatever the cost.
Joseph |
|
|
|
Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
|
Posted 21 Mar 2017 7:13 pm
|
|
you can always buy a nice lap steel (lloyd started that way too) and see if the kid is interested in slide guitar , you can get a nice lap steel for $200 , if kid is playing and learning , and progressing , you can always upgrade to a Carter starter or Red Baron ,,,there is a lot of music to be played and a lot to learn before you'll need a $6000 guitar...
_________________
www.steelguitarsonline.com |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 21 Mar 2017 8:54 pm
|
|
| Damir Besic wrote: |
| you can always buy a nice lap steel (lloyd started that way too) and see if the kid is interested in slide guitar...there is a lot of music to be played and a lot to learn before you'll need a $6000 guitar... |
+1 |
|
|
|
