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Topic: Balancing G#/A pulls on Emmons SKH Legrande |
GaryL
From:
Medina, OH USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2017 10:46 am |
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Would anybody care to share the procedure that they use to balance the G# to A pulls on the E9th neck of a SKH Emmons Le Grande? This mechanism is a bit different than the ones that I have previously encountered.
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GFI Ultra D-10 keyless
Quilter Steelaire(s)
Telonics rack system, 12"& 15" TT Speakers, Hilton Volume |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 12 Mar 2017 3:21 am
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The original series Legrandes used 4 hole Bell Cranks. The thinner string rod ( #3) needs more travel distance to get to the A so it would be in a higher Bell Crank hole position ( toward floor, away from the cross shaft ) while string #6 rod would need less travel so it should be in a Bell Crank hole closer to the cross shaft/body, meaning the other direction. Don't change pedal travel at this time.
You can set the balance pretty well but I doubt it can be perfect and maybe it shouldn't be.
Try putting string #3 rod in the 4th hole from the cross shaft and string # 6 in the 2nd hole, see what happens. You can always place string 6 in the 1st hole. See how this goes, if it's not close enough change the rod position in the changer as well, 3 and 6 should not be in the same hole position at the changer.
The later series Legrandes used 14 hole Bell Cranks which allowed for a more balanced approach to timing pulls.
The Emmons rod chart for the Legrande II ( 14 hole pullers) states string 3, changer hole #2 and puller hole #12, while string 6 is at changer hole #3 and puller hole #2. In actuality thats about an inch apart on the Bell crank (puller)
By the way, string gauges matter as well. The chart references an 011 for # 3 and an 022 for string 6.
That being said, the early Legrandes are GREAT guitars !
I think sometimes we get to wrapped up in "perfect" timing of pulls, yes they should be close but this is part of knowing our instruments and how we approach playing them.
Close is good ! At least thats my opinion. 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Doug Palmer
From:
Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 12 Mar 2017 7:11 am Set up
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Tony is correct. Make sure you use a plain .022 also.
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Emmons D-10, ST-10,LD-10 III, NV-112,Fender Deluxe Reverb. Authorized wholesale dealer musicorp.com! |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 13 Mar 2017 2:38 am Re: Set up
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| Doug Palmer wrote: |
| Tony is correct. |
the first time in 30 years, according to my wife ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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GaryL
From:
Medina, OH USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2017 12:45 pm Balancing G#/A pulls on Emmons SKH Legrande
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I appreciate all of the help! This guitar (circa the early 1990's) was built with 4-hole bell cranks, and arrived with an .022W sixth string. I'd going to change this to a .022P. The 3rd string raises perfectly, but the 6th string raises noticeably flat. The feature that has me stumped is that the distance that the pedal returns is adjustable via a set screw, not the actual pedal travel.
_________________
GFI Ultra D-10 keyless
Quilter Steelaire(s)
Telonics rack system, 12"& 15" TT Speakers, Hilton Volume |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 13 Mar 2017 1:04 pm
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When was the last time it all worked ok ?
Forget the pedal, don't mess with it, what are the bell crank positions of the rods ? What are the changer positions of the rods ?
3rd string raises perfectly, what does that mean ?
If the 3rd string reaches pitch the 6th should easily be at pitch as it has less distance to travel.
back both strings out all the way, make sure both strings are tuned natural at the tuner.
Tune the B pedal 6th string. Check the Bell Crank position , what happens ?
something is out of wack it seems.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 13 Mar 2017 3:01 pm
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| Quote: |
| returns is adjustable via a set screw, |
What?
Your not using the split tuning set screw for open pedal return are you?
People do all kinds of silly things. It takes a lot more throw for a 22 wound than a 22 plain. What they should have done was raise the 6th string 1 or 2 notches in the bell-crank. They may have increased the pedal travel.
For a 20 plain I connect bottom hole in the crank. Bottom hole in the changer raise side. Mine plays butter. Has for 20 years.
We really need pictures to try and help with your problem.
I'm sure it's nothing serious.
b. |
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GaryL
From:
Medina, OH USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2017 3:13 pm Balancing G#/A pulls on Emmons SKH Legrande
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Not using the split tuning screw. I will work some more and get back to you.
_________________
GFI Ultra D-10 keyless
Quilter Steelaire(s)
Telonics rack system, 12"& 15" TT Speakers, Hilton Volume |
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GaryL
From:
Medina, OH USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2017 3:13 pm Balancing G#/A pulls on Emmons SKH Legrande
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Not using the split tuning screw. I will work some more and get back to you.
_________________
GFI Ultra D-10 keyless
Quilter Steelaire(s)
Telonics rack system, 12"& 15" TT Speakers, Hilton Volume |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 13 Mar 2017 4:25 pm
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I should have thought to mention to you to inspect the 6th string Bell-crank for a break near the base. Never had one to break clean all at once. They start with a small crack which continues to tare. However, that bellcrank carries such a light load till it's usually the last to break. But, you mentioned it had a 22 wound. Sorry, just thinking out loud.
b. |
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GaryL
From:
Medina, OH USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2017 3:18 pm
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Thanks to Tony, Doug and Bobby for their help and comments: I was able to solve the problem with this old Emmons. I replaced the .022W with a .022P and tightened the return spring a tiny bit, as well as the pedal return. Everything is working as it should. This is kind of a testament to the guitar's designers: After 25 years, this is the first real problem that I've had. I've often wished that Emmons could have designed a keyless version with their signature tone.
_________________
GFI Ultra D-10 keyless
Quilter Steelaire(s)
Telonics rack system, 12"& 15" TT Speakers, Hilton Volume |
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