Why did Shobud close?

George Wixon · From: Waterbury, CT USA

Not sure where this belongs.
I'm curious as to why Shobud closed. I went to the unofficial Shobud web site and in one of the pages, I think about Shot, It said that Baldwin took over and then shortly after closed it.
Does any one have the story on why the company closed?
George

Garth Highsmith · Posted 3 Mar 2005 10:29 am

.

[This message was edited by Garth Highsmith on 09 January 2006 at 08:41 PM.]

Joe Alterio · From: Irvington, Indiana

This is a question to be answered by someone at Gretsch...and they ain't talking.

Of course, Fender has taken over manufacturing and distribution rights of the guitar lines, so they technically could restart Sho-Bud....but they ain't talking either....and I've asked them MANY times on MANY forums where Fender reps are quite active (including this one), and never get a response. You'd think if Fender is making steel amps, and know that they own Sho-Bud (they are selling Sho-Bud shirts and hats, after all), they'd realize they have a good market to tap into.

I mean....SHO-BUD....you can't BUY name recognition like that which Sho-Bud has.

My guess is that the Sho-Bud line is ceased indefinitely. Why it came to this, I don't know.

Only Fred or Dinah Gretsch could answer (or Bill Ray of Rayline guitars).

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

The answer to this question is very simple, it takes half the labor to make twice the profit if the Grestch Co. builds drums instead of Sho-Bud steels.
Very simple math, plus the "pedal setup" is the same on all drums! Ha!

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Bobbe - Have you ever noticed that all their kick drums and high hats are all-push?

Lee, from South Texas

Tim Harr · From: Dunlap, Illinois

Bobbe - How is it going?

You know when ever I see a drum kit set up for a lefty...

I think "Hmm..he has a Day Set up.."

After all it is backwards....

:-)

------------------
Tim Harr
Carter D-10 8p & 9k w/ BL-705s, Hilton pedal, PODxt, Webb 6-14E Amplifier

http://groups.msn.com/TimHarrWebPage/yourwebpage.msnw

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

Hey Tim, I thought the Emmons setup was backwards.
The first pedal guitars I saw were setup "DAY". But then, When I started playing,the dead sea wasn't even sick.
Just playin with you,Tim. Ain't it fun?
BTW ... Mooney, Hughey and I still play "backwards".

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

my2cents...

I think they were doomed by both Emmons and MSA. Emmons had "the sound" in the '60s and '70s, and then MSA came along and offered a totally well-engineered, low priced axe.

Sho~Bud had none of these qualities. End of story

The 'Buds were usually "pretty on top", and some did have a neat sound. But underneath...they looked like a "garage-built" guitar.

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

Donny, you need to try to get your two cents back.
The Sho-Bud company did not fail, as a matter of fact the choice was made to stop producing guitars so more money could be made for the Grestch Co. by producing other, more profitable products. Ever wonder why Donald Trumph doesn't build steel guitars?
The Sho-Bud sound was wonderful, the parts under the guitar were great (on the '80s up) and Sho-Bud, (Fred Grestch), quit producing guitars with many hundreds of orders back logged.
Also the EMCI was left hanging by Fred with many orders waiting to be filled, I know because over 20 of those orders were mine.
Try again Donny, notice how the Sho-Bud prices are going up today? Wonder why?
Just saw a LDG go on Ebay for $3200.00, not bad for a "junky" guitar, huh?
Oh, and don't go the the Nashville Palace this year, they are closing next week, gonna' be torn down. Come to see me, I'll buy dinner for you and the wife at Gabe's, great band there too.

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

Lee and Tim, your humor was not wasted on me, I loved it. I had a blue right hand drive Rolls Royce once, everyone said it had a "Day setup" on it!

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

First of all, reread my posts Donny, Shot did not sell out to Fred Grestch, David sold to Fred, against Shot's advice. Two different companies, Sho-Bud 416 Broadway (Shot's) and Music City Manufacturing, (David's manufacturing company). The "David" company was what Fred Grestch bought. Yes, David was making great money with Sho-Buds at the time, but made the choice to build busses, "Star Coaches" for the rich and famous. He started a company called "Sho-Bus", This was much more exciting for him than dealing with his former clients. The Grestch money was the primer to fund and buy several new Silver Eagle coaches.
As far as what Shot was to have said about the Emmons guitar company, I doubt it, but Sho Bud was building many guitars a week, and all other builders weren't even building several guitars a month, all counted together. I don't think Shot was ever worried about the numbers of guitars sold. I do know that Shot was hurt badly by some of his good friends going to Emmons guitars in Nashville, like Weldon, Hal, Me, and several more. Emmons was the only guitar that Shot was ever concerned about because no other brand steel ever came close to being accepted in the professional circles in Nashville until the eighties and ninties. As a matter of fact, Emmons and Sho-Bud are still being played in Nashville in large percentages. Lloyd Green, Dan Dougmore, Steve Hinson, Russ Paul, Steve Fischel, Weldon, Me? And many more.
Sho-Bud never went broke, and is still set up and able to manufacture steel guitars if the desire ever hits Fred Grestch to start building them again. But why should he? The bottom line says that if a company can build a product that has a larger profit margin, and is easier to do, it will make sense to do so.
Want to buy the Sho-Bud rights? Call Fred, he'll sell Sho-Bud. A couple of small mods and this guitar would be serious compitition in the market place today. Many new companies are not selling very well, but others are doing great. I think Sho-Bud would never be able to catch up if they started building again tomorrow.
I don't know where you get these weird rumors Donny, but you are way off base on this one. Maybe if you'd get down here more often to collect on the lunches and dinners I owe you, you could get the correct facts.
Now before anyone thinks Donny and I are not getting along here, you are wrong. He just loves to rattle my chain and get me going.(and that's OK with me)
Bobbe Seymour

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 05 March 2005 at 06:33 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

10.000 plus sales? Where did that number come from? Sho-Bud and Emmons sold every guitar they could ever build, and always had a waiting list for more, never had to pressure players or dealers to buy their guitars. Never even had to advertise to sell guitars.(But Baldwin did a little)
Shot was never "bought out", David or Harry Jackson could start building Sho-Bud steel guitars tomorrow, and the rumor is that that are thinking along these lines. David has a new design in the works now. I'm told it is an incredible guitar too. Knowing David, it sure could be.
Fred bought Music City Manufacturing, Not the Sho-Bud company that Shot had.
bobbe

Marco Schouten · From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

What was the difference between Shot's and David's company??

------------------
Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud LLG; Guyatone 6 string lap steel; John Pearse bar; Emmons bar; Evans SE200 amp

Farris Currie · From: Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

BOBBE,this ain't right to make a old man with a bad heart flutter like that!!!

even the thoughts of a new sho-bud makes me have chills!!!

don't know how i'd raise the cash,but i had one on order when they closed,and i place that order again right now.I never new David but Harry was a super friend,i use to call him at home ect.

Come on guys CRANK IT UP farris

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Bobbe, I don't make this stuff up!

I simply gather information from as many sources as possible, and try to draw astute conclusions on my own. For instance, you just said...

James Cann · From: Phoenix, AZ

Hell of a way to run a thread! Keep it up!

SB LDG (of course!)

George Wixon · From: Waterbury, CT USA

Donny,
That's why I started this thread. I couldn't understand why, if Shobud was one of the leading steel guitars back then, why would Baldwin ever close it down and not just continue to run the business and keep manufacturing the guitars. Seemed to me like every one would still purchase them and just made no sense to close down.
George

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Me too, George, that's why I ask all these dumb questions. Does Gretsch own the name now, or not? Did Shot sell in '80, or '85, or never? I know Sho~Bud could sell all they made, but so could every other company. That's true of the guys who make two a year, or ten a day. (I've never known any brand to have a warehouse full of pedal steels that they couldn't sell.)

Also, MSA made thousands and thousands of guitars, that's a known fact. I find it hard to believe that the MSA sales didn't impact Emmons, Sho~Bud, and most other makers as well. That's like saying Toyota's sales don't affect General Motors or Chrysler.

I'm not tooting MSA's horn, but just bringing to light a pretty obvious fact. Also, I know that the later Sho~Buds were very good guitars, but some of the earlier ones left a lot to be desired, mechanically. The early Danelectro's are bringing good money too, but most were just one step above junk when they were made.

Few people can predict what will become collector's pieces, and what will just be another guitar. When I started playing, I bought a '62 Fender Jaguar, knowing at the time that it was Fender's best and most expensive guitar. Now, some four decades later, it's worth a fraction of what a '62 Esquire or Tele is worth, and those two guitars were far cheaper (and less desirable) at the time!

Rick McDuffie · From: Benson, North Carolina, USA

Bobbe, I can just imagine Fred Gretsch Jr's response if David starts building guitars and puts the Sho-Bud name on them!

I sure would like to see it, though.

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

"WHY" anything happens that one may not understand from standing outside the gate; is an "Age Old" Question.
We can't get into the minds of the reasons one does/did this or that and we certainly won't know the motivation or background mentality of why one does something or not. That's why we ask questions. But there are some questions that will go UN-ANSWERED; as the one(s) with the answers is no longer with us. So that leaves the living to speculate and offer opinions of what he heard/thought/was told/deducted from and so forth.
The answer to the question is: "There is no answer"> only speculations.
Shot knows the answer of what happened; but he is no longer with us. David Jackson knows the answer but he will never Tell. Paul Franklin Sr. and Duane Marrs have moved on and so shall we. The "REAL" Sho~bud will NEVER be made again and the REAL Sho~bud sound can never be duplicated with a newly made Steel guitar.

------------------
Ricky Davis

Rebel™ and Ricky's Audio Clips
www.mightyfinemusic.com
Email Ricky: sshawaiian@austin.rr.com

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Well, I certainly had an interesting conversation this afternoon about this very subject. I think from one of the people that knows the most about it.

It was VERY complicated, and it turns out I might have a stolen guitar, though the statue of litigations has long since fallen over..

Nobody can seem to explain why a wall of brand new Sho~Buds ended up in a music store in Oxon Hill Md in '78. Some say overzealous new company execs saw "custom" on the mfg paperwork, and dumped them all in favor of a uniform guitar. Some say they went out the back door. Retail on them was 17 something, and I got one of more than a dozen of them for 600 in 78. Mr Kellar has passed on so I can't ask him. He probably paid 500 for them, bless his heart.

I hear there's a special "run" of guitars that had the LDG decal on the OUTSIDE of the laquer. I'd think they'd be pretty rare birds. I hear those came with files hidden under the armrest pads..

Also a special line of Super Pro IIs that had fretboards that glowed in the dark unless they were on the deck of a yacht in mid day sunlight.

For me and others that have rolled it around lately, the main "romantic" attraction of the instrument for me was that any one of them could very well have a birdshit™ weld, or an oddly shaped buffed part on it made by a famous player that needing to feed his family, and found that Mr Jackson cared enough about his craft and his community to EMPLOY them til they got their feet under them again.

Like Shot, and others, the people that have REALLY care about the instruments, and the players, have not always been riding the "State of the Art" wave. In my estimation a guitar has got to have a soul, and the way a company is run can hex the best of them for life. That's just me though.

Many companies have come and gone, and will soon. Their guitars, and the way they treated little people will remain.

I think that Sho Bud to me represents, like my Marrs, and a few other companies out there, a guitar built by steel players.

If I'd have rebuilt and designed the pullers etc with my friend Harley James, it'd be just as much of a Sho~Bud.

"I babied every pedal, and I polished them each day; For I had the only Sho~Bud, in Podunk Ioway. -JD-"

I just got a couple new 3D plastic PIII fretboards from Gretch, by way of Bill at Rayline.

They're just about out of them.

EJL

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

Donny, yes, this could be confusing to somone like yourself that just gets facts off the internet and wasn't here to see and be in the middle of these deals. For instance, the first series of "Baldwin" steel guitars, made by Sho-Bud, were not made while Baldwin owned the company,They were designed and made at the Dickerson Road factory by David Jackson. Baldwin, Kustom, Grestch, bought Sho-Bud,much later, then Fred Grestch bought just the Gretsch name, with Sho-Bud and Kustom, immediately sold "Kustom", kept Sho-Bud and the Gretsch name, (which was his soul reason for the entire purchase). Complicated? You bet. I don't think you could ever get to the real bottom of these many deals that happend in the mid 80's unless you got David and Harry Jackson, Me, Leslie and Ron Elliott together in one place at one time.
But remember this one fact, regardless of what you seem to dig up on the internet, I, myself, bought the entire remainder of "Music City Manufacturing"(Sho-Bud) in December of '84, so I pretty well have the correct facts on the dealings that went on through out the 70s and 80s at Sho-Bud, both Sho-Buds. If you want facts it might be a good idea to ask the folks who know and were involved. Don't put so much faith in remote sources.
Send me your address Donny, I'll send you the check for your two cents back.

Ricky Davis, what are you talking about?

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 06 March 2005 at 11:08 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

So, back to the original question: "Why did Sho-Bud Close"?
The answer is, because the new owners didn't care to build steel guitars any longer. Period. Sho-Bud was a "rider co" on the deal that had to go along with the Grestch co name,which was really all that Freddy G. Jr. wanted at the time. The Sho-Bud name stopped production with a great reputation, owing no one any guitars, owing no one any money and with a reputation among professional players that is higher today than it was the day they stopped. The value of these guitars is continuing to soar.
Why did Sho-Bud close? Because they wanted to, ever throw away a perfectly good shirt because it didn't fit any longer?

Bobbe Seymour · From: Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.

George W., Baldwin did not "close down" Sho-Bud, they sold it for good money, with the Grestch name, to Freddy Gretsch Jr.
It seems like the more I try to explain this, the more confused everyone is. It is confusing, Two companies with the Sho-Bud name, Baldwin in and out several times, the Kustom-Grestch name before Freddy finally bought it, yes, I can see why it's confusing, but the bottom line is, MSA didn't affect Sho-Bud sales hardly at all, totally different types of buyers, Sho-Bud sold everything they could make, and delivered every one of the guitars they built, to the customers that paid for them. Emmons just plain didn't ever keep up with the demand for their instruments, thus giving everyone else slack to take up.
And most of all, Sho-Bud never went broke, (this is the funniest thought of all) Fred Grestch Jr. just said, "lets make drums!", Seems like some of you can't understand that you don't have to "go broke " to stop doing business.
Remember one more thing, EMCI, (one of the greatest steel guitars ever, in my humble opinion), was also stopped by Fred Gretsch, not long after he bought this company from John Birkhead, with dealers and players all over the world wanting more guitars. Fred Grestch broke? No, I dont think so. Is Donald Trump Broke? I don't think so.

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 07 March 2005 at 07:14 AM.]

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 07 March 2005 at 07:17 AM.]

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