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Topic: New Guy Needs Help |
Jason Weaver
From:
Topeka, Kansas
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 8:03 pm |
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Hello all! My name is Jason Weaver, and I am a 28 year-old bassist in Kansas City. I am a full-time student, and between that, work, and my upcoming May wedding I have little time to be in a group and play out so I only play at church.
I have wanted to get into steel for a long time, and now would be the perfect time to pick one up and woodshed in between study sessions.
I have been thinking about what to start with: 6, 8, or 10 strings; pedal, non-pedal, or lap; steel or dobro? Many places to go, but my main concern is money. I would not want to spend more than $550-600 depending on what I get out of my upright bass.
I have been eyeing some older Fender Deluxe 8s, some Sho-Bud Mavericks, the Carter Starter, and some of the others that are lower in price on eBay (thank you to this forum for the heads up on the Wilcox).
Any help would be greatly appreciated, as well as any education on pedal steel options and lingo. I have noticed a lot of talk about options, changers, chargers, sustainers, push/pull, etc. and I do not know what these are referring to. I am a NEWBIE and would very much appreciate a little education.
I can't wait to get to know everyone here, and to learn more about all things steel. I also can't wait to get my hands on a good starter instrument, so that I can get to playing.
Also, the guy who really inspired me is Greg Leisz. I am a Bill Frisell fiend, and have been ever since the early 90s when I first heard him in high school. Good Dog, Happy Man is my fav album, and I have been blessed with oppurtunities to road trip to see Frisell with Leisz, David Pilch, and Kenny Wolleson in Boulder, Iowa City, and Chicago (with Brian Blade subbing for KW). My last trip to see Frisell was sadly a trio minus Greg, but I did finally get to see Viktor Krauss with him. Viktor was the bassist on GDHM and is bro to Allison. He is part of Lyle Lovett's band, and is usually touring with him.
That was a bit of a steel-less tangent and I apologize. I told you I was a fiend! 
Jas0n (gotta be like b0b) Weaver |
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Lem Smith
From:
Long Beach, MS
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 8:39 pm
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Jason,
Of the guitars you mentioned, I would suggest the Carter Starter. As you probably know, it does have 3 pedals and 4 knee levers, which is what you need to get the majority of steel sounds on todays recordings. Of course you won't have every change with a 3 & 4 guitar, but you'll have PLENTY to get you started. Stay away from the Maverick if possible, because it is limited in it's changes.
The Carter Starters also seem to have a good resale value as well, so when you decide to upgrade you should be able to get most, if not all of, your money back.
Nothing wrong with dobro or non-pedal, but if it's the modern sound your after, pedals are pretty much a have-to situation. Besides, if you've got the Carter or a similar guitar, and want to go non pedal...no problem, just don't push 'em!
Another thought is keeping an eye out for a used M.S.A pro model guitar. These guitars often come up for sale, and are excellent pro model guitars, and can often be had very inexpensively. Note that this doesn't really include the Red Baron and Sidekick model of MSA student guitars.
I'm sure others will join in with suggestions, but hopefully this will help you starting out. If I can help further, don't hesitate to post or email me.
Lem |
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Larry Strawn
From:
Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Feb 2005 8:51 pm
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I started with an MSA 3/1, Kicked myself from the get-go for not getting something better, but I got it cheap, traded a set of cheap drums for it,,[couldn't play them ether] Went from that to an MSA D-10 classic, 8/3, within 3 months was back at D-noes in Casa Grand gettin another change added. Then went to my Emmons because of the wieght, and my bad knee's. Wish I had kept my Classic. I guess what I'm trying to say, and probably not to well, My opinion is to get something you can grow into, not grow out of!! BTW Welcome,, I've found a lot of GREAT people here already!!
Larry S.
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Emmons S/D-10, 3/4, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"
[This message was edited by Larry Strawn on 23 February 2005 at 08:54 PM.] [This message was edited by Larry Strawn on 23 February 2005 at 08:58 PM.] |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 4:53 am
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Jason, if you can swing it I'd definately go with the Carter Starter. Musician's Friend has a deal going now in their latest catalog where they include a volume pedal, cord, bar, and picks so everything you'd need to get going, you'd have. There's enough on that guitar to keep you going for years and if you get good enough to play out with a band they actually have a decent sound....JH in Va.
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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.
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Jason Weaver
From:
Topeka, Kansas
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 5:10 am
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Thanks for the input everyone. I did have one other concern. I am 6' 6". Am I going to have a problem with fitting under a pedal steel? I noticed Carter had legs and rods that were 1" longer, but that doesn't sound like it will help me much.
If I do get a Carter Starter and need some seriously longer legs and rods, is there a place I can turn without paying extreme amounts for custom work? Thank you all again!
Jason |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 6:19 am
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Jason, I'm 6'5", and I had a devil of a time with the knee levers at first. If you go pedal steel, you need adjustable legs, IMO. Until I got a steel that was fully adjustable, I couldn't really get to the levers. It's not so easy to find something like this for $500-600, but there are sometimes real bargains out there on makes like MSA and BMI. I don't know why they're so reasonable, they're great guitars, IMO. Check the For Sale - Instruments section of this forum, it's probably the best online source for used steels. To keep the price down, you should probably look for a simple S-10 with 3 pedals + 4 kneelevers.
BTW, adjustable legs are not enough, in themselves. You will probably need to get a liftkit, which consists of spacers to keep the pedal pressure from contracting the extended legs, and threaded pedal rod extenders. I'm sure others have them, but I know Bobbe Seymour at www.steelguitar.net has them in 1" and 2". I use 2", works great. They're not expensive at all.
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MSA Classic D-10 8+4, Sierra U-14 8+5, Sierra S-10 3+4, BMI S-10 3+4 plus assorted six-stringers;
Peavey LTD 400, Line6 Pod 2.0 + Ampeg BA 112, '64 Fender Deluxe Reverb, '69 Dual Showman Reverb + EVM Cabinet
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 6:21 am
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| Well, David posted while I was composing that post. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 6:40 am
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| I must confess that I haven't listened very much to Greg Leisz's playing, but I have the impression that he is more of a lap steeler than a pedal steeler. If he is your main inspiration on the instrument, then perhaps a lap steel would be a fine starting choice for you (and a great deal cheaper than a pedal steel). |
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John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
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J Hill
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 1:59 pm
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Jason,
It sort of sounds like you know the Steel guitar sound enough to know you probably won't give up on it too soon. So I agree with the fellow up above (not God) who said get one to grow 'into' instead of 'out of'.
But if you do choose a beginner's model, I've got a Carter-Starter and its really nice. If you're tall it'll fit you better than it does me (5' 4") because I can barely reach the knee levers. But as for the strings...I can't imagine a pro-model sounding much better. Really, its a nice guitar and the resale value is good. Don't buy it from a store because they greatly inflate the price. Get one on-line, should be around $650. If you get it from Carter ask them to get it all in tune for you.
You'll undoubtedly be overwhelmed by the presence of so many female types on this Forum. Not! That's because the Steel, to a lady, is just not quite musically and intellectually challenging enough.
Congratulations on your upcoming Wedding! Have a wonderful life!
Leila
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Richard Gonzales
From:
Davidson, NC USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2005 2:05 pm
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| Most of the oldtimers started with a lap steel. Like Jim said, it sure is a lot cheaper and see how you do before you put out the big bucks. There is so much a lap steel has to offer that would give you a real jump start when you move up to a pedal steel. |
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Bill Beall
From:
Branson, MO. USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2005 5:09 am
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Hi Jason, and welcome to the greatest collection of help and advise re. steel guitar on the face of the earth. I, too, am a relative newcomer and have profitted greatly from the advice I have gleaned from this forum.
The man said, "Get something that you can grow into, not grow out of." Very sound advice. If you are already a musician you will hit the limit of ANY beginner guitar pretty fast and then will have to deal with the frustration of wanting to do more than the instrument is capable of. Get somethng like an MSA classic D-10. These can be found relatively easily and they are very reasonably priced. The MSA is known for excellent tone and sustain and they are built like a tank. Parts are available and Reece Anderson, who built the MSA is a forum member and is very helpful.
In any case, don't go with a "student" model guitar. It will only lead you into the paths of frustratioin.
Again, welcome.
Bill
MSA D-10, 8/5; Randall Commander |
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Jason Weaver
From:
Topeka, Kansas
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Posted 25 Feb 2005 8:41 am
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OK, I have another question. When I do get a PSG, can I plug my headphones directly into the PSG to practice? I can do this with my guitars and basses, but I notice a lot of gain in those PSGs. Also, is that super swell of gain that kind of breaks up from the pickups or from some kind of hot preamp?
I do have a Peavey 300 watt keyboard amp with 4-band EQ and verb, but it is at church. I know it wouldn't be as nice as one of their steel amps, but would it work OK for performing?
Thank you all again for all of your advice!
Jason
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John Daugherty
From:
Rolla, Missouri, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2005 8:54 am
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Jason, I doubt that you would like the sound of a steel guitar through a KB-300. The horns give too much hi-freq response. The final answer,though, is in the listening test.
I,too, recommend a D-10 or U-12 so you can grow into it. It has already been mentioned that you can pick up a good MSA cheap. I have a D-10 MSA which I do not use because I am strictly a U12 player now. It is a pleasure to play and will last a lifetime. |
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Dr. Hugh Jeffreys
From:
Southaven, MS, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2005 7:30 am
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| To play with headphones, I use a Rolls PM350 monitor; it's about the size of 2 packs of cigs. Also has line in, mic, instrument vol. controls with bal. line. Very inexpensive: c. $75.00 I have a pair of amp. headphones, but they no longer work; I don't know who made them. Best, ---j--- |
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Steven Black
From:
Gahanna, Ohio, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2005 12:51 pm
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| Hey Jason, welcome to the wonderfull world of steel guitars, Jason this is a life long learning of the guitar but exciting, you always learn new phrases and licks, I recommend the Desert Rose Guitar student model which comes with 3pedals and 4knee levers, and this guitar you can add more pedals to as you gain more knowledge and experience, give Chuck Back a call at 1-866-967-0700, tell him I sent you. Also the GFI guitar is another I recomend, And the carter Starter is another excellent guitar, call John Fabian or Ann Fabian at carter steels they will help you out. steveb. |
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Jason Weaver
From:
Topeka, Kansas
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Posted 28 Feb 2005 2:29 pm
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You guys have been really great answering all of my questions. I have found a few MSA D-10s on here, but they are all just too much money. I need an amp too, so I would rather keep my steel budget at $700 or less.
Thanks for the heads up on the Desert Rose Steven. I just did a search and saw the thread on Gary Phillips D-10. That thing is GORGEOUS!!! That tiger flame maple has such a warm finish on it. I will definately be calling him about his student model, it is in my price range.
Jason |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2005 2:37 pm
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Jason. guess Im last on the greetings list.
Like you I am new to pedal steel guitar. one year and one month ago my 74 SHO-BUD arrived by truck.
i thought "what did I get myself into?".after a bit of help and great reading on this site I am well on my way to becoming barely mediocore...no really.
it's a tough but rewarding instrument.
after my regular practice I just let myself rip loose. I have found some excellent non traditional playing methods that sound great.
I started playing steel on a wonderful old lap steel. I have two now have, built two, will probably buy more.
I hooked on steel.
welcome to the Forum. keep us posted .[This message was edited by Randy Reeves on 28 February 2005 at 02:39 PM.] |
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Jason Weaver
From:
Topeka, Kansas
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Posted 28 Feb 2005 7:10 pm
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I have been searching the forum for info on the Desert Rose and all I can find are rave reviews. Does anyone have some comments/ expericence specific to the student model?
Also, I had posted an amp question and it now has a little lock on it. I am not sure what that means. It has no replies, so I will repeat it in this thread.
Is there an amp that will do PSG and bass guitar? Since I am on a budget I would much prefer an amp for both.
Thank you all in advance for your replies to these questions!
Jason |
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Lem Smith
From:
Long Beach, MS
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Posted 28 Feb 2005 7:43 pm
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Jason, I'll let some of the other guys weigh in on the amp question, but your topic isn't really locked completely. It's just been moved to the "Electronics" section of the forum.
Lem |
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Jason Weaver
From:
Topeka, Kansas
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Posted 1 Mar 2005 4:36 am
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Thanks for the heads up on the move. I didn't see an electronics section. How can you tell where it was moved to?
Thanks again,
Jason |
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Lem Smith
From:
Long Beach, MS
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Posted 1 Mar 2005 6:20 am
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Jason,
If you look on your original topic, up toward the top lefthand side, you'll see where it says it was moved to Electronics. Anytime b0b or a moderator move a topic, it'll say it there.
Lem |
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Jason Weaver
From:
Topeka, Kansas
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Posted 1 Mar 2005 9:09 pm
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Thank you to all who have sent me your $.02 on where to go for my first PSG. I have been reading through the searches I find on the Desert Rose, and I think it is my best bet.
I contacted Chuck today, and I hope to place my order in the next few days. I will let you know the specs as soon as I decide!
Thanks,
Jason |
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Don Poland
From:
Hanover, PA.
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