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Topic: Emmons collection in NC? |
Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 7:02 am |
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Many years ago when Jim Aycoth was at the helm of the Emmons Guitar Co. he took me to visit a gentleman who had an amazing collection of push/pulls.
It was somewhere in NC (I know - not much help!) in a semi-rural area and probably not too far from Burlington.
It's perhaps not important and I was just reminiscing about it in my own head this morning and wondering if anyone has a clue about who it was.
I seem to recall maybe eight or nine guitars - some really old ones and all in pristine condition. A couple of red-bellies and, although I knew nothing about the various early Emmons at the time, I'm sure there'd have been wraparounds and bolt-ons among them. One was an ex-Barbara Mandrell guitar with some western-style graphics on the front apron (and some white tape on pedal five for some reason, I believe).
This chap was a real enthusiast and each guitar was set up and had its own quilted cover.
Does this ring a bell with anyone? As I said, not of great importance but I'm intrigued. I'm pretty sure he hadn't been a pro-player but, rather, a dedicated enthusiast.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 8:13 am
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I think I know who you're talking about. But I can't call his name for the life of me. It'll come to me. Billy Knowels likely knows. Did he live near Fayetteville?
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 8:20 am
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| Roger, was it Skip Mertz? |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 8:29 am
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No, Bobby - definitely not Skip. I know Skip quite well.
I'm ploughing through my old desk diaries trying to find some reference to a trip to Emmons during which this visit may have occurred. I'm nearly through 2001 and there's no point in looking after that - that's when Jim and Joanne were suddenly and unfortunately deposed from the Company. It was definitely Jim who took me to this gentleman's house.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 8:51 am
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Found it, but only sketchy info.
His name is/was 'Larry' something and he lived in Reidsville, NC.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Jeff Garden
From:
Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 9:45 am
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| Larry Jenkins? |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 9:52 am
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Possible, Jeff. Do you know that name, then?
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Jeff Garden
From:
Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 10:03 am
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My brain works in mysterious ways, Roger. I often can't remember a chord chart but for some reason I remembered a thread about Bryan Adams and a comment that he had built a number of push-pulls for someone. So I just found the Bryan Adams thread and lo and behold, there's a man named Larry Jenkins in Reidsville (I don't know him, however). I just searched for Larry and it looks like he hasn't posted since 2010.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=32849&highlight= |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 10:12 am
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Well sleuthed! It has to be him, although him talking about his guitars all being built by Bryan doesn't mesh with my memory of a bunch of 'historic' steels.
One was definitely an ex-Barbara Mandrell steel - is it possible that Bryan built one for her, I wonder, and Larry got it from Bryan?
My visit, by the way, was early-2002. Perhaps I was wrong regarding Jim and Joanne's enforced departure; I know that happened immediately after St Louis so maybe it was September, 2002.
I can't help speculating that, had that upheaval not occurred, the Emmons Guitar Co might still be a viable entity.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bob Muller
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 11:51 am
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Roger, Here is one built by Bryan Adams.
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 4:59 pm Somewhat ignorant on PP guitars?
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Hi guys,
I'm somewhat ignorant on PP guitars?
Can someone tell me the details on red bellies, wrap arounds and fatbacks.
Who built what when, etc...
Any of the other terms would also be good to know?
I'd just like to know more than almost nothing.
I'm getting a Promat in March and it will be my first PP guitar.
Thanks in advance,
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 5:21 pm
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Do a Forum search, Andy.
This has been covered comprehensively. 'Red Belly', by the way, is nothing more arcane than the colour of the flocking under the guitar. Most guitars are flocked in black but the red is very striking in my opinion. I'm not sure of the history of that process - did people order it like that or was it random at the factory? - but someone here knows.
Fatbacks are the guitars where there's no cut-out of the back apron. Wraparounds and Bolt-ons were early styles of the changer end of the guitar. Split-tail was the ultimate standard on Emmons guitars - I don't know but I bet 95% of Emmons are split-tail.
As I say, do a 'search' - accurate info is here somewhere. Mike Cass, Chris Lucker, Tommy Cass (no relation, I don't believe) and others are real experts and have had everything through their hands at some point.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 5:53 pm
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| Quote: |
| I bet 95% of Emmons are split-tail. |
I think that estimate is a little high. Emmons built a ton wooden neck guitars in late 60's thru the 70's that were of course Bolt On's. I would trim that back to around 70% tops. But I can only guess. That's allowing for the early Wrap -Around and Bolt ON aluminum neck models.
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 6:15 pm Thanks to Roger and Bobby
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Thanks to Roger and Bobby
That answered most.
Still not clear on a Split-tail but will do a search.
Thanks
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 6:22 pm
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I was really including all Emmons, including LeGrandes which are split-tail. But Bobby knows more than I do by miles so mine was just a guess. Regarding push/pulls he could well be correct.
Andy: Somewhere on here is a great composite photo showing all three styles.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 6:26 pm
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Andy, A split tail is also known as a cut-tail. I use the term Split tail because Roger did as not to add to the confusion.
Wanna think all the 64's were red bellies. But I'm guessing on that. There were also a few brown bellies around 66 and a while after. The brown bellies I've seen, were all used on Rosewood and Mahogany mica.
Hope this helps.
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 6:29 pm
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No I didn't count LeGrandes. All cut-tails as Roger mentioned.
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 6:29 pm
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Ooops - you're correct, Bobby. Thanks for the correction.
I'm in uncharted territory here!
Cut-tail it is.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 6:32 pm
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Bobby:
Do Legrandes outnumber push/pulls by a significant amount?
The production period for each is similar but the totals for each type are less clear.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 6:42 pm
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Roger, I'd have to think on that one. Lynn Stafford, and Billy Knowles are better qualified to answer that.
Andy, near the bottom of this thread are pictures of 3 push pull changers. The Bolt On pictured is an early one. Maybe 64. But the same principle as the later Bolt On's.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=312531
Last edited by Bobby Boggs on 19 Feb 2017 7:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 6:44 pm
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Thanks for that link, Bobby - that's the one I was thinking of. A perfect illustration. (Andy - you need to scroll down to see the three pictures.)
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
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Posted 20 Feb 2017 6:17 am
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To further clarify (or confuse?) the issue, the photos linked in the other thread are helpful, but the bolt-on shown in the first pic is actually a very early aluminum neck bolt-on, no step in the neck. (I learned this from Herb Steiner who certainly has a wealth of knowledge regarding Emmons P/P guitars).
I'm not sure how many were made that way, but the more common (at least I've seen a lot more) were made like the one below. In fact, this photo I found online seems to have been part of the original set of comparison photos based on the way it's labeled.
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 20 Feb 2017 7:50 am
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Bill I wrote.
| Quote: |
| The Bolt On pictured is an early one. Maybe 64. But the same principle as the later Bolt On's. |
I thought that would cover it. Didn't take the time to search for picture of a later Bolt ON. But thanks for the picture of the most common bolt on. The Bolt On in my picture may be number 8. Or not. Doesn't matter, only a handful of those made. |
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Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
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Posted 20 Feb 2017 8:05 am
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| Sorry Bobby, missed your comment. Absolutely correct.. |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2017 8:48 am Early Bolt-On
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| Bobby Boggs wrote: |
Bill I wrote.
| Quote: |
| The Bolt On pictured is an early one. Maybe 64. But the same principle as the later Bolt On's. |
I thought that would cover it. Didn't take the time to search for picture of a later Bolt ON. But thanks for the picture of the most common bolt on. The Bolt On in my picture may be number 8. Or not. Doesn't matter, only a handful of those made. |
The photo in question of the very early bolt-on guitar is indeed #8 (1164008W) and actually has wood necks, not aluminum. I's been through a couple of hands since Herb Steiner owned it but it currently resides with me.
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Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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Last edited by Lynn Stafford on 20 Feb 2017 9:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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