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Topic: 8 string string sets? |
Adam Tracksler
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2017 3:15 am |
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For commercial sets, is Beard the only one?
I have been thinking a bit about cone load and tension, I don't know if one can make up a set with less tension and therefore less load on the cone to increase volume and sustain.
Does anyone know a string tension calculator that allows you more than 6 strings so it could be experimented with?
What are any of you using? |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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L. Bogue Sandberg
From:
Chassell, Michigan, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2017 8:34 am
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Check out D'Addario's string gauge/tension computer:
http://stringtensionpro.com
I've been using GHS 1600's with matching extras for years. Essentially the same gauges as the Beard 8str set. When you look at the tensions on some of those strings, they're pretty high. I wonder what would happen if you went for a set tension balanced at around 30 lbs per string.
For my G13 tuning,the computer gives a 30 lb. High to Low of D - .016, B - .019, G - .024, E - .028, D - .032, B - .038, G - .049, F - .056.
It would be interesting to hear from anyone who's tried going a bit lighter. My problem is that every time I think about doing it, I have a major gig coming up and don't want to mess with things. Like right now!
Bogue |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 1 Feb 2017 9:59 am
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Here is the Beard 8 string set for resonators.
Bogue, your gauges confuse me a bit. Your tuning is the same as in the string set above except for your F on the 8th string. One example, the third string as pointed out in the verbiage on the package by Paul Beard - this is always the first one to "die." A .024 tuned to G seems awfully light to me.
Adam, it has always been my understanding that to get the best volume and sustain, you want to load the cone more, not less. Of course there is limit, or a ceiling to this.
I wonder if I am missing the gist of this thread?
One of the shortcomings of an 8 string dobro vs. a 6 string is that the two additional strings "dliute" the volume because the cone is distributing the load across 25% more strings. 8 string dobros often don't have as much "presence" as similarly built dobro with six strings.
I spoke to the late Mike Auldridge one time about the different tunings he used on his 8 string Beard MAS signature guitars and he felt that the one he kept tuned to C6th with the lighter gauge strings and less pressure on the cone just didn't have the same "oomph" as his G6th tuned guitar with heavier gauges.
If one goes too heavy on certain strings then the tone might suffer, Jerry Douglas refers to it as being "a little thuddy." But if you go too light in the other direction then you aren't driving the cone enough and volume and sustain might actually suffer.
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Mark |
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David Knutson
From:
Cowichan Valley, Canada
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Posted 1 Feb 2017 10:34 am
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FWIW - I use D'Addario Flat Tops (EFT 13) for G6 with a couple of extras added. They are not quite as bright sounding as the Beard sets, but I like that. It also seemed to me that the low "G" and "E" strings in the Beard set were just a little too heavy. I add a .032 for the middle "E" and .053 for the lower "G". So, from 1 to 8 . . .
D-016 B-019 G-028 E-032* D-O36 B-044 G-053* E (or F)-056
Nice, even tone and volume across all 8 strings on My Gold Tone PBS 8. Just Strings always seems to have the sets and singles in stock.
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David K |
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L. Bogue Sandberg
From:
Chassell, Michigan, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2017 1:01 pm
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Mark, to clarify, the gauges I currently use are within a thousandth or two of the Paul Beard set. (mine=.016, .018, .028, .030, .036, .046, .056, .058) What I keep meaning to try is backing off the bottom four and the high G a couple thousandths to see what happens. I'm guessing the down force on the cone is only part of the equation. The mass and damping effects of the strings also will effect tone, volume, and sustain. The extra two strings will tend to produce more down force, more mass, and more damping.
Regards the high G, I was led to believe it dies faster because of the heavy beating it gets from hammer-ons and pull-offs in the bluegrass style. Is that the case? Since I play more Hawaiian or swing style, it might not affect me as bad as other folks. Comments for the experts here? |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 1 Feb 2017 1:07 pm
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Based solely on my own preferences. I've reached for a .056 for the low E when nothing else was available and it just felt a tad flabby to me.
I personally wouldn't consider messing with 5-6-7 as the lower gauges would get mushy (for me) in a hurry.
fwiw
hp
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Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
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Steven Pearce
From:
Port Orchard Washington, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2017 1:26 pm
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Flabby is a good description. One squareneck is tuned to an open D and it took going to a 60 until that low D wasnt flapping around...gauges are:
D-60
A-48
D-38
F# -28
A-22P unwound
D-18P
No more droopy strings, cone tension adjusted... great volume...
now if I could only find one of those add-on 'Talent Generators'. 
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http://www.fentonstwang.com/fr_home.cfm |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2017 6:12 am Re: 8 string string sets?
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| Adam Tracksler wrote: |
For commercial sets, is Beard the only one?
I have been thinking a bit about cone load and tension, |
Man, I'm sorry I missed this - you ARE looking for string for an 8 string resonator.
I have no idea for that. I apologize, I assumed you mean for a lap or console electric steel guitar. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 2 Feb 2017 10:00 am
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| L. Bogue Sandberg wrote: |
Mark, to clarify, the gauges I currently use are within a thousandth or two of the Paul Beard set. (mine=.016, .018, .028, .030, .036, .046, .056, .058) What I keep meaning to try is backing off the bottom four and the high G a couple thousandths to see what happens. I'm guessing the down force on the cone is only part of the equation. The mass and damping effects of the strings also will effect tone, volume, and sustain. The extra two strings will tend to produce more down force, more mass, and more damping.
Regards the high G, I was led to believe it dies faster because of the heavy beating it gets from hammer-ons and pull-offs in the bluegrass style. Is that the case? Since I play more Hawaiian or swing style, it might not affect me as bad as other folks. Comments for the experts here? |
Thanks for clarifying Bogue, when I re-read your post about it being a computer calculation of total string pressure it makes more sense.
Though I have met a few guys in the string portion of the music business, I haven't thought to ask why the the 3rd string G loses its integrity first on a resonator guitar. But then I'm not sure I would get any kind of definitive answer. Pictured is an example of a string set from Dunlop which is headquartered here in the Bay Area. They include a "bonus" plain steel second string .018 in the package. Except who ever needs an extra second string? These are good strings, but if they are trying to gain an edge on the competition by throwing in a bonus string, they would likely sell a lot more packages if they included an extra .028w 3rd string. A number of players I know have contacted Dunlop about this but apparently it has fallen on deaf ears. So even though they should be "experts," they seems to have missed the bus on this deal.
This being the case - that they don't "get it" at an actual company that produces strings like Dunlop - I would say my theory holds as much water as anybody's and here it is. Though I don't doubt that hammer ons and pull offs contribute to the 3rd string's early demise on a dobro compared to the others in a set I believe these are the key factors:
1. Of the wound strings in a set, the 3rd is the lightest, so logically it will be the first to go down for the count. And it seems to me that the wound strings overall lose their sparkle before the two plain strings.
2. The 3rd string is in the middle of a "busy intersection." With the possible exception of the 1st string, the 3rd string might get plucked more often than any other during a set's time on the guitar. I think the way most people play, the beefy low G and B strings aren't plucked as often. So having an extra .028w would be a good selling feature. Many players when purchasing strings online will also order additional 3rd strings to keep on hand to be able to switch out the dying 3rd on their guitar to extend the overall life of the set.
Some string companies do listen once in awhile. I would be willing to bet that that for 6 string resophonic sets the top seller is D'Addario EJ-42. It used to have a .026w for the 3rd string but enough players contacted the company (or it might have been endorsers like Jerry Douglas or Rob Ickes that did so they decided to listen), and several years ago they changed the 3rd from .026w to .028w.
Back to Adam's original post and bearing this in mind, going lighter to increase volume and sustain isn't the ticket. Though 8 string dobros are cool because of the additional possibilities for tunings, because of the physics they just have an inherently different tone or timbre than a six string dobro. This is part of the reason some players compromise and have their luthier build them a 7 string guitar. You don't lose as much of the "oomph."
_________________
Mark |
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Adam Tracksler
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2017 12:00 pm
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Wow! A lot of information!!
I didnt know if the cone could be loaded somewhat less than a regular 8 string set, and thereefore "breathe" more... Just seeing if I could devise a set that was less load than a regular 8 string set, maybe somewhere closer to a 7 string set....
For my purposes, it probably wouldnt make a lick of difference, since im pretty much a living room player. |
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