How do you pick a good Sho Bud?

Evan Elkin · From: Portland Oregon

I'm shopping for a vintage sho bud single neck and wonder if I could get some guidance on what to avoid, or to look for...good years, eras etc so I don't get a lemon...I'm in NYC and will almost certainly have to purchase over the internet.

Ron Whitworth · From: Yuma,Ariz.USA Yeah they say it's a DRY heat !!

Hi Evan;
You really need to contact Ricky Davis.He is the resident Sho-Bud expert around here & will tell you the truth.Hang on, he will show up..Best to you...Ron

Evan Elkin · From: Portland Oregon

Thanks Ron - I'll see if I can get in touch with him...I'm new to the site and I'll have to figure out how to email someone directly...or just wait for him to reply

Sonny Priddy · From: Elizabethtown, Kentucky, USA, R.I.P.

Call Bobbie seymour At Steel Guitar Nashville He Can Tell You He Knows Sho-Buds. His Ph. Is (615-833-5555) SONNY.

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Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Evan.. never saw a Sho Bud that did not sound good.. I love them, BUT I feel that some are a little unstable tuning wise compared to modern steels. They CAN be upgraded, and "stabilized", but it doesn't come cheap. Ricky or Bobbe are the real experts, they WILL answer your questions better than me.
I owned/played Buds for years, and they are great guitars, but talk to an expert before buying one, because IMHO all buds are not created equal from a mechanical perspective.... bob

Evan Elkin · From: Portland Oregon

thanks bob and sonny...I'll talk to those guys if I can

there's a sho bud I've been offered at what seems a decent price and it's from the early to mid 70's. it looks great, but buying something I've never played makes me a bit nervous

mike nolan · From: Forest Hills, NY USA

Evan,
I live in Queens.... Long Island City. I have owned 4 different Sho~Bud guitars. I also own Emmons PP and Williams guitars. I have owned MSA, ZB, BMI, MCI and Marlen guitars.I would be glad to help you out with your guitar shopping. My current 'Bud is a 75 or 76 LDG... which in my opinion is a good benchmark for vintage Sho~Bud look and feel. I am a reasonably competent PSG technician and have done enough work on various makes of guitars to have a pretty good idea of the condition of a guitar. Email me.....

Silvio Bello · From: Los Angeles, California USA

Hi Evan...If you looking for a Sho Bud ,just post it here on WTB...I think you'll be a lot better off buying one from a forum member, rather than getting one from a total
stranger .IMHO
Regards,
sb

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

There ya go Evan; Mike Nolan just offered the best advice you can get anywhere on here....what a nice guy.
I will say this. Eventhough there were changes to every sho-bud about every year...ha..>I never met a bad Single-10 Sho-bud.
As far as the tuning unstability; that can be the same for any pedal steel guitar, if it's not properly set up.
The only time a Sho-bud needs upgrading; is when the owner doesn't know or doesn't care to learn how to make the original play Perfect, than he should get it modernized for his own satifaction. But the steel won't sound like a Sho-bud anymore and all he did; was get someone to set a pedal steel up for him.
So find you someone that knows and I believe you just found that someone close to you with Mike Nolan.
Ricky

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Ricky.. You ARE the expert on Buds.. I am not but I need to respectfully ask a question. If Buds only needed to be adjusted properly to become tuning stable,how does Duane Marrs keep his business running?
His mods to keep old Buds playing in tune are well known among many Sho Bud lovers. I must respectfully ask if a pull system that mounts directly to the wood body will be as rigid as a system with an aluminum frame supporting the wood body? It is possible I got a couple of "bad ones" thats for certain,and I do think about that..

My ProIII was the worst... it went out of tune without me touching the pedals when it was under the lights. Played great,sounded great, but I was forever hitting the tuners and rod nuts... After many years I just sold it and moved on to another brand. end of problem.

I noticed over a year ago that you took exception to the fact that some of us long time Sho Bud players complained about the fact that these steels had to be tuned more than others. I think its a fact... I love Sho Buds .. always will and I'm gonna be looking for another VERY soon as a matter of fact. I Still say that it is more than adjustment... My Buds over many years were never as dependable from a "staying in tune" standpoint as my steels with aluminum frames. They always played great, sounded great, looked great, but never did I consider them as "solid" as a"framed" steel guitar. I know you are friends with the guys at Marrs... Do they also feel it is just a matter of keeping the guitar adjusted?.. I'm not sure that opinion would benefit thier business.

I still feel that when I play a sho bud, I have to keep my endplate nut driver right on the guitar.. always did... With my other brands it always stayed in my gear case. I must say that my older Bud S 10 was much less of a problem than the Pro III,and I had fewer tuning issues with it, but it still was not up to where my other guitars were as far as tuning is concerned.

This is not sour grapes by any means. It is just the observation of a steel player that played /owned/loved Sho Bud guitars for many many years. They were much more easily affected by weather,lights,sun,humidity,"road time" than my steels with frames...That being said, I'm about to start looking for one[an S-10]...and I hope you will give me some advice where to start looking

!!! Just gotta have that sound back!! bob

[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 12 March 2005 at 05:01 AM.]

Lem Smith · From: Long Beach, MS

Bob,
Just wondering if maybe the metal necks on the Pro III had something to do with it. I've had several Sho~Bud's, both Professionals, Pro II's and L.D.G.'s with wooden necks. None of these guitars exhibited any problems with keeping the changes in tune. In fact, although I don't recommend doing it, I have left my Pro II in my SUV for up to a week at a time and when I would set it up, it would still be dead on in tune.

Lem

Evan Elkin · From: Portland Oregon

I just want to say how impressed I am with how welcoming and generous with your time you folks are here on steelguitar forum. I appreciate the help and info I've gotten thus far. cool community. thanks

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Lem.. good thought.. I just did a few shows with a wood neck LDG a few months back, and had no real tuning issues with it!...and that mechanism looked HORRIBLE.. one step up from a Maverick! No where near as beefy LOOKING as my Pro...

Maybe it was those aluminum necks on the ProIII.. I had a few minor tuning problems with my old wood neck single 10.. but it was certainly acceptable if I remember.. it was well over 20 years ago!!.. lots of other steels have aluminum necks without the tuning problems, but most of those would also have an aluminum frame supporting the mechanicals.. Hmmm that gives me something to think about... I'll ask Ricky or Bobbe.. IF they are not too PO'd at me

bob

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Evan.. you are certainly right about this place.. ALL great guys!.. Welcome aboard!!.. By the way you are gonna have some competition looking for an S 10 Sho Bud.. that's ok though.. I KNOW you have more money to spend than I do! bob

Evan Elkin · From: Portland Oregon

sure, I'm rolling in cash!

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Evan---there is nothing----nothing----that will serve you better than what Mike has to offer. With a used axe and with all the mechanical problem potential of an old PSG you really do want someone to look under the hood who knows what he's looking at. I'd be happy to offer similar assistance but I lack what Mike's got---Sho-Bud experience. Great resource right in your back yard. Best of luck. Oh, and my best recommendation: wait until Matt Umanov has one to offer. It will be priced at around $4700, I expect.

---I neglected to mention that Ricky is, for me, the go-to guy for info re: specific models, years, mechanisms. I have bugged him numerous times for advice and recommendations. Not for myself but for people I was trying to help guide towards a good old 'Bud.

If it were me, my next post title after this How do you pick a good Sho Bud? would be: How do you pick a Sho-Bud well?

[This message was edited by Jon Light on 12 March 2005 at 06:45 AM.]

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Bob; I can see where my comments got mis-guided. I don't mean a matter of adjustments. I mean the matter of "Set-up". I've written a bazzillion things on "springs" "gauges""rollers" "friction""slack" and I can go on and on...and that is what I mean by set up. As for the Pro-III; yes there are many factors of why a Pro-III would be unstable; and there were about 7 different mechanism changes throughout the Pro-III history. I never cared for them. I guess sometimes when I say "Sho-bud"; I'm lumping too many models in. There are certain model Sho-bud's; that the tuning stability is right up there with almost anything modern; but again, it needs to be set up properly. They weren't even set up properly coming right out of the factory; "by the way"...ha
Having to tune and tweek any pedal steel is the on going nature of the beast> some more some less; but every pedal steel has to be tweeked from time to time.
Ricky

[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 12 March 2005 at 09:34 AM.]

Wayne Baker · From: Altus Oklahoma

Evan Elkin · From: Portland Oregon

guess I set myself up for that one

Donald Dunlavey · From: Jonesboro, Georgia, USA

I'll go with what Wayne said. You tell em Wayne.

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Evan Elkin · From: Portland Oregon

wayne has a fan

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Evan-Ricky knows how to pick a good Sho-Bud. I picked his brains a few times on Sho-Buds and finally got one that I wanted.

This is a later model than the old S10 Rack and Barrel 5/5 I had for 16 years. And, I think, an improved one.

A S10 Sho-Bud Pro 1 blonde birdseye Maple all original in mint condition. It had 3 pedals and 2 knee levers.

I wanted 6 pedals and 5 knee levers but wanted it as original as possible. I got some original parts from Ed Nayler (Bless his soul).

My good friend here in Michigna Fred Welch put it together, and had some extra parts , and did a fine job. Pete Domeier had some parts for me too.

Now I have a Very sweet S10 Sho-Bud Pro 1
with the wider string spacing , so I can get my grips in there, the wide pedals I like and has the old fashined barrel tuners with the movable bell cranks.

I have had very little tuning problems after setting it up. I can play for a week at a time without tuning and then as Ricky says, I'll have to "Tweak it" again. I don't mind that.

AS Bobby Seymour says, the TONE, the tone the tone. I have had a few other guitars with a good sound, but for me it has the sound I like.

I have my "Lean and Mean" E6 tuning on it with 2 E9 pedals and 4 E6 pedals....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 12 March 2005 at 06:09 PM.]

mike nolan · From: Forest Hills, NY USA

Thanks for the kind remarks guys... I owe a huge debt of gratitude to Ricky for all of his help over the years... personally and through his great postings on the Forum. For that matter,there are many helpful resources.... everyone here, the Carter website, Mike Cass, Bobbe's history lessons, the Emmons field guide, Winnie Winston of course...etc.

It looks like Evan has found a nice S-10 Sho~Bud... and if his deal goes through, we will spend a few hours together doing some setup and general upkeep hints.

I often get the call from the great guys at a local Williamsburg music store (Main Drag Music)when there is a PSG to repair/tweak. I was doing a setup on a MSA Classic SS yesterday..... years of gunk, frozen roller nut, oddball changes that didn't really get all of the way.... (1.27 step raise on 2&7 etc.)... anyway got it all working and sort of standardized for a new player... But the thing that was kind of a shame is that I didn't get to meet the owner and have the chance to take a few minutes and explain what was going on with the guitar.... simple things like how to put it in the case, make sure that you put the rods on the right pedals... all of the things that we take for granted.... there is a big difference in simply setting up a guitar as opposed to introducing a player to the instrument. Simple but invaluable stuff that I had to learn the hard way back in the old days... (for me the mid '70s)

By the way my `Buds have always been pretty reliable...

Farris Currie · From: Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Just find yourself a decent amp,and plug her up and you've got a very fine sho-bud.if someone hasn't messed it up,your hooked for life.can't beat that sho-bud sound. farris

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