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Topic: A more melodic and intuitive pedal setup for C6th. |
Brad Higgins
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2017 8:19 am |
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I like this setup so much that I had to share it. Though I have it on my 12 string universal that I built for myself, that has quadruple raise on the B string, and I don't have the 8th pedal any longer. This tuning copedent is for C6th and it works great for playing wide grip fat chords with pedals 4 & 5 together, and pedals 6 & 7 together, by only making a couple of minor changes to your guitar. Those two little changes on pedals 4 and 7 make it so much easier to play chord melodies, mainly because all of the notes in the melodies of most songs can be found in either the chords or pedal changes with this simple setup.
Last edited by Brad Higgins on 4 Mar 2017 6:01 am; edited 16 times in total |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 21 Jan 2017 9:25 am
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Looks interesting, but I would miss not having your pedals 4 and 6 (standard: pedals 6 & 7) together, because I dislike double-foot pedaling.
Currently I have a redundant C neck - LKL w/ the 3rd/4th whole tone raises to use in conjunction w/ either pedal 5 alone or pedals 5 and 6 together.
An alternative option, would substitute a 5th string 1/2 step lower on a RKL. That gives the same pedal combination ability, but without 9th & 10 string changes. |
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Brad Higgins
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2017 9:41 am
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| I hate double foot pedaling also, that's actually why I came up with this setup. First, I made pedal 4 exactly the same as pedal 7 for easy one foot access with pedal 5, but then I thought, why have two pedals exactly the same, and for certain songs I always wished that I had a half step raise on the A string, so I changed that and liked it even better. For wide grip fat chords, standard pedal 7, with a whole step raise on both strings, actually goes better with pedal 5. One way for you to easily kind of try it out is to tune your A to B change on pedal 7 to A to Bb, I think you'll be pretty amazed at all of the added chord voicings you can achieve. Also, if you're just doing double string playing, and since pedal seven raises both strings a whole step, you can just move the bar up two frets for a lot of it. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 21 Jan 2017 4:08 pm
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Brad, your P7 is a useful change (John Hughey had it, I think) and on the uni it of course corresponds to A&B. But there isn't always time to get there, so I might try it on the spare pedal I happen to have.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Brad Higgins
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2017 5:10 pm
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Thanks Ian, that's good to know about John's setup. I figured out something else tonight about it, if you're on a five chord while holding down pedal 6, and you press that pedal 7, it will bring the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th strings right back to the one chord, kind of like stepping on your A & B on an E9, and if you include the 5th string it's a 6th. It really adds a lot more than it takes away. If you try it, I think you'll really like it, I doubt that I'll ever switch back to standard pedal setup.
Last edited by Brad Higgins on 22 Jan 2017 8:06 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 21 Jan 2017 6:20 pm
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| Brad Higgins wrote: |
| ...if you include the 5th string it's a major 7th. |
Hmmm... wouldn't the 5th string give you a 6th rather than a major 7th? Say you're on the 2nd fret with pedal 6 down, playing G7. Add your 7th pedal and strings 3&4 give you E and C, but the 5th string at 2nd fret is an A, right?
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Brad Higgins
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2017 4:31 am
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Thanks Jim, you're absolutely right, my mistake, I think what threw me was, I figured out the notes quickly on my universal and the high G# gave me a major seventh on the top with an added 6th on the bottom. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll change that in my post.
Last edited by Brad Higgins on 24 Jan 2017 6:00 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Brad Higgins
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2017 6:32 am
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Enjoy!
Last edited by Brad Higgins on 4 Mar 2017 5:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 22 Jan 2017 12:12 pm
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For purposes of illustration, I have made a chart of the B6 part of my universal and transposed it into C for comparison. You will notice that the conventional P6 has moved to RKR and the most-used part of conventional P8 (my 7th pedal) is duplicated on the vertical:-
So most of the time I can cover everything with just this:-
I accept that two-footing cannot be avoided totally, but I reckon I have it down to the minimum.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jack Stanton
From:
Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey
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Posted 22 Jan 2017 12:25 pm
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| Couldn't you achieve your pedal seven change using a split, assuming you can lower the fourth string? Going to have to give it a try |
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Brad Higgins
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2017 1:51 pm
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Ian, it looks like you have most of the bases covered on both of your guitars, but I have trouble using knee levers when I'm playing B6th on my uni, I have to think too much, and I don't want to do that, why should I start now? Jack, it probably wouldn't work with a split tuning because of the other string. All I can say to everyone is to check out the video in my next post, because I can honestly say that with this tuning (4 pedals & 1 Knee lever) , there is absolutely no song or songs that I play that would require me to use both feet, also, in most cases, you'll be able to play the entire melody within the chord and pedal changes with this copedent. Just check out the video in my next post!
Last edited by Brad Higgins on 23 Jan 2017 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brad Higgins
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2017 3:18 pm
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Last edited by Brad Higgins on 4 Mar 2017 5:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 24 Jan 2017 4:14 am
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Nice thread, I've always wondered why PED 8 is not where PED 4 is. As I am playing much more C6th these days I believe I'm gonna move 8 to 4 and 4 to 8 on my Legrande II and see how it works for me.
I too don't like being a two foot player
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Brad Higgins
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2017 5:58 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
Nice thread, I've always wondered why PED 8 is not where PED 4 is. As I am playing much more C6th these days I believe I'm gonna move 8 to 4 and 4 to 8 on my Legrande II and see how it works for me.
I too don't like being a two foot player |
Hey Tony, I actually don't even have pedal 8 at all now, I removed it completely, then moved the changes from pedal 7 to pedal 4, because I mainly only used the top change (A to B) on pedal 4 anyway, and it's still there. Also, the top change of pedal 7 is still the same, but I think one of the things that I like the most about the new pedal 7 is the fact that now I can push pedals 7 and 8 together, strum across the whole neck, and it sounds great, that bottom half step raise makes all the difference. I'll take a picture of the underneath of my steel and post that later today. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 24 Jan 2017 10:52 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
| I've always wondered why PED 8 is not where PED 4 is |
Tony, it quite often is. My old D10 is set up that way, and it has advantages. Maybe it's worth a survey, but from the various copedents I've seen, a lot of folk seem to do it.
Jimmy Day played that way according to Winnie Winston's book (see example of their use bottom of p.84); but according to the copedent listings on this site, he didn't. Maybe he was undecided or or had different setups on different guitars.
When I designed my uni I almost went 8 5 6 7, but because I play Day on the E9 I wanted to capitalise on having A & 5 next to each other. Otherwise who knows. But you'll never totally get rid of two-footing unless you have more levers than pedals.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 24 Jan 2017 2:49 pm
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Brad, Ian, thanks,
I see 8, moved to 4, as a plus , to me, it just appears to be natural, if we are playing with one foot !
8,5,6,7...then 4. I'm gonna jump in the pond and see what happens !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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