8 string pedal instructions

Denise Soule · From: British Columbia, Canada

I am a new member - am hopig to get some help. I have a Fender 8 string pedal steel from the 50`s. Any ideas where I can find instruction material for this. Everything seems to be written for 10 strings

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

What are you wanting to play? If you want to play swing and jazz I'd set it up for the top 8 strings of the C6th tuning and use modern instruction materials.
If you want to play country, I'd probably suggest tuning to the top 8 of the modern guitars.
The 8 string pedal steel had a very short life of major interest, expanding to 10 very quickly, so not much 8 string materials were created, and not much of it survives.
Yes, there were folks who stayed with with 8 their whole career, but they didn't write much material.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

Lane is right - there is virtually nothing in the way of learning materials for 8 string pedal steel. You pretty much have to try to translate whatever you can from 10 string materials. The learning curve is further compounded by the difficulty of setting up some of the early Fender 8 string pedal steel guitars with tunings for which they were not designed - specifically E9.

You can post questions here and get some good help. There is also a Fender Pedal Steel Group on Facebook that is very helpful. Can you post a picture of your guitar?

Don't be daunted by these challenges. The old Fenders are wonderful, unique sounding instruments and you can make a lot of music on them. I own 1958 and 1963 Fender 1000s and will be happy to try to help out.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I thought the Fenders were easy to switch around?
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

It is very easy to switch copedants on the cable Fenders however they were originally designed for A6 and E7 (Bud Isaacs) tunings. The early long scale models with their fixed bar bridges and nuts are particularly challenging to get to work with E9. The later short scale models with the roller nut and cam style bridge saddles can handle E9 much better.

Scott Duckworth · From: Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies

There's a lot of music in A6 and E7...
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it

I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus!

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Yes, but in the absence of instruction materials, it can be a challenge to learn how to find it.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Jeff Mead · From: London, England

Denise Soule · From: British Columbia, Canada

Thanks to everyone who answered me. I am picking my steel up next week and then will start making some decisions.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Denise, as Jeff said, the challenge with these guitars is not the 8 strings, but the absence of knee levers. All of the learning materials for pedal guitar are based around using levers, because levers became popular in the same period as the era of highest popularity of pedal steel (in the '60s). Most pedal players today simply don't know how to play on a guitar without levers. (They either never tried, or never had to play a pedal guitar without levers.)

There's a ton of great music in that old guitar, but learning on your own won't be easy without a teacher who can at least help you with the basics of the mechanics of the thing, and a practical method of "using what you have". Smile

Michael Lee Allen · From: Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois

Deleted

Denise Soule · From: British Columbia, Canada

I read on one of the post on this site (somewhere) that you can add levers. Is it very difficult and can they be added to this particular gutar

Stephen Williams · From: from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA

yes you can add levers. There is a well-noted example of somebody who used a door hinge as a lever.
Go to the Fender steel group on facebook. A lot of Fender players there plus a lot of info.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Michael Yahl was working in coordination with someone to make a knee lever retrofit without drilling. I think the move to Texas delayed it.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Adding levers is quick and easy...provided you have some mechanical ability and access to simple tools and some raw material. The good thing is that most all commonly-used levers only pull one or two strings, and that makes it a piece of cake on these guitars.

However, I do think the most important thing is to get the guitar, get it set up, and then start to learn the rudiments of playing. There'll be plenty of time to make additions and changes after you learn the basics.

Wink

Richard Alderson · From: Illinois, USA

Dear Denise - Until you do get 10 strings, here is what you can do with 8; Use the E9th standard tuning and either leave the bottom two strings off, or the top two. Its a handicap either way, but there is still a lot to be learned. How much E9th have you done before? If you leave off the bottom two, you'll mainly be missing the D string (9th), but you can start learning the chromatic strings (top two strings); A reasonable set up is to have the top eight strings for E9th, and then the standard A pedal, standard B pedal, and the E string raises and lowers. That would be (low to high) E - F# - G # - B - E - G# - D# - F#; The "A" pedal raises the Bs to C#; "B" pedal raises the G#s to A; Then assuming its a Fender, you have two more pedals, so take one of them to lower both the Es to E flat and the other to raise both of the Es to F. The main handicap of this set up is you don't have that 9th string D, but you will have all the top 8 strings. In my own case 10 strings was more than my poor little brain could handle, so I was quite comfortable learning the bottom 8 strings first, and then I got used to the top two (chromatic strings). Its definitely not what the real players would recommend, Bob is totally against 8 strings, and so was Winnie Winston, I would say get a 10 string, like a Zum Stage One, but if all you can afford is 8 strings, then the set up I have just described will allow you to learn a lot of instructional material. You'll be missing the 9th string and a pedal called the "C" pedal, you will however have everything else, and you can make some progress. There's lots of twangs in that guitar just mashing down on the A and B pedals, and with the top two strings, you can learn most scales. Not ideal, but if that's all there is, the top 8 strings (or the bottom Cool

is about the best set up in the mean time.
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Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500.

Jeff Mead · From: London, England

If you have 4 pedals then A and B pedals plus raising and lowering your es is a good idea but if it were me, I'd have my AB pedals in the middle and put the e raise next to the b string raise (the A pedal) and the e lower next to the g# raise (the B pedal). This is because there are a lot of times when you'll want to raise the es along with the A pedal and lower them with the B pedal.

A lot of great players have used and stuck with 8 strings and while it can be a stepping stone to 10 strings there's no reason to assume that you will definitely want to.

Richard Alderson · From: Illinois, USA

That's a good idea by Jeff regarding pedal placement. A and B in the middle, E raise and E lower on either side of A and B.
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500.

Denise Soule · From: British Columbia, Canada

Again, thank you everyone for all your comments. This site is amazing. I don't feel quite so far out in left field anymore.

Judson Adair · From: Oklahoma, USA

Cindy Cashdollar has an excellent video for 8 string nonpedal C6 tuning. It would be worth a look.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Not if you're trying to learn how to play PEDAL steel.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

Here you go:

http://www.steelguitarscanada.com/online-store/products-page-2/al-brisco-dvd-instruction/al-brisco-ralph-mooney-style-e9th-tab-in-pdf-dvd/

Hope that link works. Al Brisco playing his Fender 400 in the style of Ralph Mooney.
Lots of great 8 string playing on the early Buck Owens hits. The iconic playing by Tom Brumley on "Together Again" for starters.
You could spend the rest of your life learning the styles of Ralph Mooney and early Tom Brumley.

Judson Adair · From: Oklahoma, USA

Lane,
I was totally lost on my C6th neck until I got her videos. So far as I can tell the pedals on the C6th neck for the most part just take the places of the slants that you would do so most of it really does translate.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Check the Facebook Fender Pedal Steel page - we have quite a bit of copedent and playing info on there, plus setup/maintenance instructions. Virtually every used Fender not purchased from one of the regulars or a few pedal steel specialist shops has sluggish fingers, frozen pulley blocks and several other items that need to be dismantled, cleaned/polished and dry lubed (never, ever oil a Fender - oil attracts dirt and will quickly cause pedal action and tuning problems) and otherwise prepped/maintained.

While instructional books and videos are scarce for 8 string (especially unmodified, single raise/lower instruments...many Fenders are modified for double changes on q couple of strings) many players have found it's not tough to learn basics on an 8-string in several copedents - the lack of typical E9 chromatic strings makes basic playing far easier.

E9 can be played just fine on both long scale and short scale Fenders if the bridge and nut are carefully cleaned and polished; may players have never broken a string and play E9 exclusively.

Nevertheless, quite a few have shifted to Sneaky Pete's B6 - either his full 9+2 setup or a more basic version (usually eliminating some of the center pedals). 6-string players especially seem to find B6 a quick "learn", as it relates closely to 6-string guitar and is voiced lower than E9 - right in 6-string range. It also consists of repeating groups of 4 strings, somewhat like a Dobro, and is very logical.

Plus since a Fender copedent can be changed so quickly (if string gages are close) you can try several different copedents without much hassle.

They are also very stable, the big, solid maple body and sturdy metal frame making them free of cabinet drop and other instability issues. There's also plenty of room for modifications (and unlike other vintage instruments, mods tend to increase value) like adding knee levers and installing an additional pickup and/or electronics if desired. Also the inclusion of a volume/tone circuit gives them quite a wide tonal range.

There are quite a few of us that Play Fenders exclusively - you won't be lacking for advice, assistance, help finding spare parts etc. Good luck!
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Denise Soule · From: British Columbia, Canada

Thanks for all the info Jim. I will check out that site.
When I checked out the manual on line it said it was set for an A6. I also play Dobro and am told that this tuning will follow the dobro playing quite nicely.. Any thoughts on this

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