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Topic: Carter SD-10 6th string tuning problem |
Bradshaw Pack
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 9 Jan 2017 12:16 pm |
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My Carter SD-10's 6th string (G#) will tune up just fine but the B pedal won't raise to the "A". If I tighten up the pedal tuner hex screw so that the B pedal does raise the G# to A, then the string will not be in tune but wildly sharp. I am hoping to hear from players who have had a similar problem and that can help me out. Thank you so much.
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ZumSteel U-12; William's U-12; Evans Amp (15" speaker); Goodrich volume. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 9 Jan 2017 12:50 pm
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Have you recently switched from a plain to a wound 6th string? A wound one will need almost three times as much travel (but I think they sound better), so you'll either need to adjust the rodding of the guitar or adjust the pedal stops to allow you more travel.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Bradshaw Pack
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 9 Jan 2017 2:34 pm
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Thank you for that. No, I have always used a plain string on the sixth. When I figured out the problem I will consider going to a wound string. Again, thank you.
_________________
ZumSteel U-12; William's U-12; Evans Amp (15" speaker); Goodrich volume. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 9 Jan 2017 3:16 pm
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Have you inspected the barbells? They might be bent, so there's hardly any pull. Also check for a ball end in the changer.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Bruce Derr
From:
Lee, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2017 3:53 pm
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| Long shot, but check to see if the nylon tuning nut is stripped. It might be holding when you tighten it, making the A sharp, but slipping when threaded to normal depth where it might be more worn. Just try another nut. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2017 4:19 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| Have you inspected the barbells? They might be bent, so there's hardly any pull. Also check for a ball end in the changer. |
Lane is right.. there isn't that much to go wrong on the carter system... Check for a ball end stuck in the changer, check the nylon nut, check the brass bar bell or "dog bone" where the pull rod from the changer hooks around.. Both the brass insert, and the hooked end on carters can break or bind up.. Try backing the nylon tuning nut out until in doesn't change pitch at all when hitting the pedal, and then adjust it in until it tunes to pitch.. If that nut is in too far, that string will do all kinds of weird shit until its adjusted right.. it will turn out to be a very simple thing.. carter made a very good, very reliable mechanism.... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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J R Rose
From:
Keota, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2017 5:12 pm
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I just lately had the same problem. Bob nailed it with advise to loosen the tuning nut till it does not touch the changer. Then start turning in and pressing pedal on and off till you get pulling and tune it up. I had the good fortune to have a forum friend walk me thru it. PS: When tuning nut is loose tune the string with the key up to pitch. And yes, If you put a wound string on it will take a lot of readjusting. Good Luck, J.R.
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NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose |
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Bradshaw Pack
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 9 Jan 2017 7:15 pm
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Thanks to all of you. I'm going to try all of these suggestions until I get it fixed.
I will certainly let you know what ended up being the problem.
Bradshaw
_________________
ZumSteel U-12; William's U-12; Evans Amp (15" speaker); Goodrich volume. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 9 Jan 2017 7:21 pm
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If it used to work right and it doesn't now, I'm betting putting it in the case, working the pedals whilst looking at the bellcranks and the changer (especially both raise and lower scissors and how they interact with the stop bar), and playing a game of "one of these things is not like the other" will show you what's going wrong.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2017 11:28 pm
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Bradshaw, I am in agreement with Mr. Rose. I would bet the tuning nut is screwed in way too far. That eats up your travel. It takes very little travel to pull a 6th string especially an unwound .020 or .022 from G# to A. Your pedal has plenty of travel if it is pulling the 3rd string as it should. Look at your changer and see if the 6th changer finger is pulled past the other 9 fingers down near the guitar cabinet. If it is overtuned that finger will not be lined up with the other 9. Just back to nylon tuning nut off and tune the G# then start screwing the tuning nut on until it pulls to A. Just a little different way of saying what JR Rose has already told you.
Jerry
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http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 10 Jan 2017 7:17 am
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| One issue singular to a Carter, if you turn it over with the strings off the connecter to the "idler" cross shaft will fall out of position. Then string three will raise but not string six. Also is there split tuning second raise rod? That might need backing off. JS |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2017 6:11 pm
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| John Swain wrote: |
| One issue singular to a Carter, if you turn it over with the strings off the connecter to the "idler" cross shaft will fall out of position. Then string three will raise but not string six. Also is there split tuning second raise rod? That might need backing off. JS |
Bradshaw and I got together over the phone.. The problem was in the Idler cross shaft as John stated..
We went step by step, and he sent me a pic of the idler and how it related to the "MAIN" 2nd pedal G# cross shaft.
.. Everything WAS hooked up, and had been working just fine until the problem started out of nowhere.. I think maybe the lock allen screw to the little idler pull rod slipped a bit.. After I had him remove the lock bolt, and reposition the dog bone one notch closer to the body on the bellcrank and then tighten the lock bolt again,, Bradshaw once again found the string 6 rod was pulling properly, and staying in tune. First thing we did was eliminate any problems in the changer, and then worked from the nylon tuner toward the front of the guitar, examining each place the rod came into contact with another part.. bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Bradshaw Pack
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 14 Jan 2017 10:46 pm thanks Bob
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A heartfelt thanks to Bob Carlucci who spent a part of his Saturday helping me out over the phone. Bob very methodically got to the root of the problem and now the guitar is up and running. Up here in Canada there are not a lot of people who work on these guitars, in fact, the next repair shop is half a continent away.
Thanks to everyone on the forum for their suggestions.
Thank you again Bob,
Bradshaw
_________________
ZumSteel U-12; William's U-12; Evans Amp (15" speaker); Goodrich volume. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2017 9:49 am Re: thanks Bob
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| Bradshaw Pack wrote: |
A heartfelt thanks to Bob Carlucci who spent a part of his Saturday helping me out over the phone. Bob very methodically got to the root of the problem and now the guitar is up and running. Up here in Canada there are not a lot of people who work on these guitars, in fact, the next repair shop is half a continent away.
Thanks to everyone on the forum for their suggestions.
Thank you again Bob,
Bradshaw |
It was absolutely my pleasure Bradshaw. Over the years I have found that a LOT of folks, myself especially for many years, tend to over analyze problems with pedal steel guitars.. Once the changer is eliminated, its either a lube, clearance or adjustment problem between the nylon nut at the changer right to floor pedal, including the pedal itself and its clearance to the floor.. The only other problem spot thats a possibility but in most guitars is pretty rare, is the roller nut.. It would take many years of neglect to seize a roller at the nut, but a machining flaw is a possible issue ... Once in a blue moon a spring at the changer will lose strength and cause issues, but almost without exception, that will show up instantly in the "changer test", which is where I think all tuning/playability diagnosis should start... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Jan 2017 2:36 pm
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By "idler" I assume that's the famous Carter "gear-down" arrangement?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2017 2:50 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| By "idler" I assume that's the famous Carter "gear-down" arrangement? |
Lane,,He had a split tuning set up between the B pedal and one of the levers,and a small pull rod from pedal B belcrank to a secondary one.. He said it went from perfectly fine to unplayable all of a sudden, and he IS the original owner.. Something either slipped a bit or started hanging or binding for some reason... He sent me a clear pic of the setup and I did not like the angle the tiny pull rod between the belcranks had, it was very steep, and although it was always in the same place, the issue was resolved when I had him lessen the angle for a more direct pull between the 2 belcranks with less possibility of deflection or binding.. Over the years, i have seen a LOT of issues just "pop up" in good parts that all of a sudden wanted to be looser, tighter, or in a different place or at a different angle.. Can't say why it happens, I just know it does, and pretty often... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Michael J Pfeifer
From:
New York NY 10036
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Posted 25 Jan 2017 5:44 am
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| I have a similar problem with my GFI. I'll tune the string G#,then B pedal down tune the A note,release the pedal and the G# is flat. Tune the string again,step on the pedal and the A note is sharp. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 25 Jan 2017 10:22 am
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That sounds like simple overtuning.
Back off the nylon nut a full ten or fifteen turns, tune the G#, then the A.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Michael J Pfeifer
From:
New York NY 10036
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Posted 26 Jan 2017 4:12 am
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Hi Lane,
Nice to see you again. You are knowledgeable. I tried something similar to what you're suggesting. Now I'll try backing off the nut 10 - 15 turns as you suggest.
Thanks |
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