76 Emmons P/P Knee Lever Question

Dave Alfstad · From: Indianola, IA USA

I'be been thinking about adding a knee lever or two to my 76 Emmons. Here's what I currently have:
LKL: E9 raise 4 and 8
LKR: E9 raise 1 and 3, lower 6
RKL: E9 lower 4 and 8; C6 lower 3 to B
RKR: E9 lower 2 and 9; C6 raise 4 to Bb

I have been thinking about adding a knee to raise my Cs to C# on the C6 neck. What would be other suggestions for more E9 levers? Would this C6 lever also double as an E9 lever as well? I think I'd like to get the guitar set up as an 8 X 6, but that means adding two knees, and I'm not sure what to do with them other than the C6 change I mentioned.
Looking for suggestions, and I'm also wondering where to get the kits. I have the black levers on this P/P Emmons.
Thanks!
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Dave Alfstad
Indianola, Iowa

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Two suggestions for the C-C# lever: first, have it on the right knee, and second, make the equivalent change on E9 be a 1/2 tone change. IOW, don't put a whole tone lower change on the E9, or a change that requires a longer throw than the change on C6.

For example, my C-C# lever raises both s.3 and s.7 on C6, and it raises s.1 and s.7 (F#-G) on E9, both on RKR. I also know that most players today raise s.1 on E9 to G#, and employ either a whole tone lower on s.6 or an equivalent raise on s.7.

Anything can be done, of course; but in the interest of a quick and convenient change that requires the same amount of lever travel on both necks, that's my suggestion. I have either 4 or 5 levers on my C6 tuning.
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

John Swain · From: Winchester, Va

Although I agree with Herb, I currently like both Cs to C# on LKL on my C6 neck. This way you raise the root on LKL, and lower it on RKL ON both necks! If you're new to C6 this might help you pick it up faster.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I put both Cs to C# on my last pedal, and with P5 on a knee, I hit the two together to get the old-school high 5 C6th three frets up.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Dave Alfstad · From: Indianola, IA USA

Thanks for the help so far! Just to give y'all some background, I've been playing steel for about 20 years, and used to make a living at it. I was looking through Herb Steiner's book and it really got me thinking about the C to C# change because I use a D on top. I used to have a D8 nonpedal steel tha I put a G on the top of the C6 neck, and I can really see the benefit of it. I would really like to add the C-C# change to my steel, and I don't mind moving knee lever changes on the C6 neck so much, but I am pretty firm on the E9 changes, with the exception of additions.
I wonder if it wouldn't even be more benificial to replace my A-Bb lever with that change and add a knee to bring that one back.

Mark Wayne · From: Wisconsin, USA

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

For lever kits, you could perhaps try contacting Jim Flynn. He added a vertical knee lever to the p/p S-10 that I bought from Bob Hoffnar, works well and looks right.

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Does your C6 neck have its own set of levers on n the left knee located in the center? I have guitars with what both Herb and John have said and I slightly prefer that raise as John suggests on CKL for the reasons he gives.

I have it on a pedal for my Universal but my pedal order is non standard and happens to fit well.

Dave Alfstad · From: Indianola, IA USA

I don't have a center knee lever for C6. That would be something I would consider adding. Does that position work well with using pedal 5 too, then? What should I consider as far as another E9 lever? I don't currently lower strings 5 & 10. Is that something most would consider necessary? I've gotten along more than 20 years without it, so I don't know what I may be missing out on.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I'd put P5 on a center knee, that way you eliminate the double-footing of 5 and 7,and the jumping from 5 to 8.

As for the 5th (and 10th, but it's less used) string lower, here are two brief videos I did, a total of 5 minutes max.
Major key: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n9aEyTaD3YA
Minor key: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn1IY1E-uKU

Obviously, where I'm splitting the A pedal and the A# lever, a push-pull or pull-release player would have to half-pedal the A pedal (if I had a push-pull or pull-release guitar, I'd probably put a half-stop on the A pedal).
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

On the other hand. .

if you fully embrace double footing... you would never want P5 and P6 anywhere except next to each other on the floor. I find i have little use for constant vol pedal use during straght C6 playing thus prefer double footing.

OTO OH.

I prefer not double footing on a Uni. B+ (C+) on floor... P7 on a lever... because P7 goes with near every foot pedal. But do prefer it on a foot on a straight C6. Most would put P6 on a lever on a Uni and keep P7 on floor. Lots of good reasons for that, too.

Just goes to show there are lots of ways to do it and the trick is to find what fits your approach.

OVERALL

Building a complete C6 coped with 5 knee levers is a phenomenal system. Highly recommend. In fact I like it so much I will probsbly have a straight single neck guitar set up this way.

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