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Topic: using a compressor w/steel |
Mark Greenway
From:
Lake Kiowa, Texas
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 9:39 am |
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Anyone using a compressor with steel?
Sounds logical if a compressor produces more sustain and and evens out the dynamics of the notes. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 10:04 am
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Perhaps in the studio. Live, my right foot does the job
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 11:29 am
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| Sort of... I always use a dynamic enhancer - a BOSS LMB-3, where compression is one of the effects. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 11:58 am
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Mark,
Stompbox compressors where a popular sound for a while with steel players. You can see pictures of players from the 70's and 80's using the Dan Armstrong Orange Squeezer and things like it. It gives the steel a very particular sound that works for some. It is more of an effect that a way of increasing sustain.
here is some info:
http://www.analogman.com/os.htm
I don't like the sound very much personally but it was common for a while. It takes away the fullness of the low mids and the sparkle in the highs to my ear.
Lane,
The compressors steel players use while playing have absolutely nothing to do with compressors that are used in the studio. Whole different ballgame.
_________________
Bob |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 12:16 pm
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Indeed, Bob. But I don't much like the sound of live compression. But it's better than delay.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 12:28 pm
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To me there are two different applications of a Compressor on a Steel.
1) As an effect.
2) Actual compression.
As an effect, I like the 'punctuation points' that I get from an MXR Dynacomp. The compressor in the Profex II is also good for this, but not so much as an actual compressor.
For actual compression, I use a rack DBX compressor... But, I only use it when I am in danger of half of my notes being swallowed up by a large room, or a loud drummer. If set right, it will in fact even out the "peaks and valleys". But, in a small room it can tend to simulate too much reverb, so I leave it out in quieter settings.
Despite popular belief, it doesn't negatively affect dynamics... it DOES enhance them. When notes are accented, they are 'colored' differently in quality, regardless of volume. Compression makes the quieter notes easier to hear, but still identified by the ear as "quieter notes". |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 12:53 pm
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I sometimes use an MXR dyna-comp with both controls set set to maximum to enhance chimes. But I turn it off when I'm not chiming.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 1:38 pm
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For completeness: in my set-ups an LMB-3 acts as a permanent buffer w/tone-control, and replaces (eliminates the need for) input and eq stages in amps.
An LMB-3 + SS power-amp + speaker, makes up my complete sound-chains. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 2:17 pm
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I don't like stomp box guitar style comps.. A small 1/2 rack on top of the amp, is far superior,its a lot more natural sounding. I use a dbx 163 "over easy", and its a great unit. No "squeezey" sound. Just enhances the dyanamics, and boosts the natural sustain a bit.. the trick to getting a good sound with a comp is use a LITTLE.. too many guys squish the signal horribly, most commonly its "clean" tele players... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 2:25 pm
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I think they have their place, as when used sparingly for a special effect. But using them all the time, making all sounds equal, takes all the life and dynamic expression out of the music, IMHO.
Here's a clip of Gary Carter playing (without a conpressor), and I think that probably only the experienced players and musicians will really appreciate the nuances and feeling that Gary delivers - soft (when it's called for), and louder in the refrain, to build tension and add depth and variety.
To me, this is ultimate artistry in playing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOSiNrgHcxg |
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Mark Greenway
From:
Lake Kiowa, Texas
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 6:27 pm
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Oh man, Gary Carter is the real deal for sure.
I got the wants for a compressor after listening to Gary Morse on this Nashvilleprosteel.com video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLyOJdFZshc |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 7:06 pm
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Dynamics sound familiar, and the Keeley is about as good as they come in a stomp-box.
IMO, a properly (lightly) set compressor of good quality, is about as much of an effect as a tone-control - which all use. |
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Stephen Williams
From:
from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 11:16 pm
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| I like to have some of the un-effected sound dialed in so as not to lose the attack. |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 11:27 pm
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| I would'nt play a single note on my Telecaster without a compressor (BOSS CS-3, moderately applied), where the slightly squished sound is what I want, but for steel – no! It kills the attack, the crispiness and the fullness of the sound, to my ears. There's not exactly a shortage of sustain to remedy – and if needed anyway, that's what the volume pedal is for. But the less invasive LMB-3 as suggested by Georg actually works; it smooths out the sound a bit without killing tone. |
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Robert Parent
From:
Gillette, WY
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Posted 22 Nov 2016 4:07 am
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Like Bob, I have used a DBX 163 for many years. Tried some of the more popular stompboxes but have not found any to my liking.
Robert |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 22 Nov 2016 4:24 am
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| Stephen Williams wrote: |
| I like to have some of the un-effected sound dialed in so as not to lose the attack. |
Me too. That's why I landed on the LMB-3, after having tested lots of compressor/limiter solutions in stomp-box format for guitar and found every single one of them totally unsuited for steel. The LMB-3 - being designed for enhancing bass guitar attacks (slaps etc) and slope levels after the attack - doesn't destroy the attack-sound unless it gets set for extreme compression = audible effect.
With moderate settings the LMB-3 tends to let the attack stand out better than if it wasn't there.
Of course, if the attack-sound one prefers is made by overdriving and force clipping in the SS input stages of an amp or other unit, then the LMB-3 will prevent that as it "rounds" the attack more or less like an overdriven tube-stage does.
I like "tube-shaped" attacks but not tube amps as such - tube designs are obsolete in my book, so I let the LMB-3 emulate that part of the "tube sound" since the unit is part of my sound-chains anyway. Getting a decent "tube sound" out of a $65 unit that also works as a pretty good buffer, compressor and tone-control, beats most deals on the amp-market in my book 
Better play chords in tune though, as the LMB-3 (being a rather simple and cheap OTA design) does have a tendency to pump a little on beats. I use that "weakness" to my advantage when tuning by ear, and it forces me to get chords in tune on-the-fly while playing.
Intentionally playing on beats by adding "drone notes", is otherwise a nice effect... |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2016 10:16 am
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Keep seeing "I like the natural sound".. does anyone here really think the sound of your favorite recording of a pedal steel solo, backup pad or instrumental was NOT compressed at some point in the recording, or mixdown???..
Compression enhances the sound if used right, You guys are thinking of those crappy little stomp boxes.. they are a joke compared to a true studio quality compressor/limiter Most of the floor boxes meant for guitar are awful ..bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2016 11:00 am
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Right. It's an amplified instrument. A compressor should sound no less "Natural" than any of the circuitry in the amp.
I will point out one thing that I keep seeing though... The phrase "If used right". It is true that you have to know what you are doing with compression. It IS a mess in the wrong hands. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2016 11:15 am
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I use the Keeley compressor on my standard guitar either in sustain mode or to get the quack sound at times for effect.
The dbx rack mount mentioned above is a lot better for getting subtle soft compression in a hurry. Many if not most of the modern recorded steel parts are compressed to the point that they sound sterile or have audible quack on the leading edge of them. Especially the ones coming out of Nashville. Using a quality rack mount compressor to take 3 - 6 db off a live instrument recording, while not required, makes the mastering a lot easier later on.
Most steel players are adept at milking compression out of their volume pedal to increase the apparent sustain without having a "pumping the volume" effect. |
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Kevin Milner
From:
Los Angeles, California, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2016 12:14 pm
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
Lane,
The compressors steel players use while playing have absolutely nothing to do with compressors that are used in the studio. Whole different ballgame. |
That probably used to be true, but it's not anymore. I have the Origin Effects Cali76-CD on my board and use it most of the time with my Milkman Half and Half (use it much less often with the Milkman Mini). It is a clone of one of the most popular studio compressors ever, the 1176. But it also adds a dry blend (which I make heavy use of to help retain some of the attack), and doubles the range of the attack knob. Very beautiful compressor for steel that can go from incredibly subtle to full squash (I do the former). I find that it helps with a solid state power amp to simulate some of the natural compression you get from a tube power amp. Stompbox compressor technology has come a long way since the dynacomp and similar were released.
_________________
GFI S10-P Ultra -> Milkman 40w Pedal Steel Mini or 300w Half & Half (or Sarno SGBB/Nashville 112 or '94 Twin Amp or Homebuilt 5e3)
Effects: Cali76-CD Compressor -> EP booster -> Sarno Earth Drive -> Earthquaker Devices Zap Machine -> Earthquaker Devices Grand Orbiter Phaser -> Caitlinbread Dirty Little Secret Mk III -> Malekko Envelope Filter -> Hilton VP -> Pedal Projects Klone -> Tech 21 Blonde -> Strymon Timeline -> TC Electronics Spark Mini Boost -> Strymon Lex -> Strymon Flint |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 23 Nov 2016 12:26 pm
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I use the Opti Comp patch in my Zoom MS50G. It does not compress the sound so much as it "lifts and supports" the notes. I do not play live without it.
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533
Last edited by Larry Behm on 30 Nov 2016 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mark Lawrence
From:
Greenfield, Indiana, USA
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Posted 25 Nov 2016 5:58 am
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| Larry Behm wrote: |
| I use the Opti Comp patch in my Zoom MS50G. I does not compress the sound so much as it "lifts and supports" the notes. I do not play live without it. |
Me too. |
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David Wright
From:
Pilot Point ,Tx USA.
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Posted 28 Nov 2016 5:27 am
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Well, on big jobs I use this compressor.. works great...
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 28 Nov 2016 5:49 am
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| Kevin Milner wrote: |
| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
Lane,
The compressors steel players use while playing have absolutely nothing to do with compressors that are used in the studio. Whole different ballgame. |
That probably used to be true, but it's not anymore. I have the Origin Effects Cali76-CD on my board and use it most of the time with my Milkman Half and Half (use it much less often with the Milkman Mini). It is a clone of one of the most popular studio compressors ever, the 1176. But it also adds a dry blend (which I make heavy use of to help retain some of the attack), and doubles the range of the attack knob. Very beautiful compressor for steel that can go from incredibly subtle to full squash (I do the former). I find that it helps with a solid state power amp to simulate some of the natural compression you get from a tube power amp. Stompbox compressor technology has come a long way since the dynacomp and similar were released. |
Kevin, I do use a compressor in the studio so it might be worth checking out the new stomp box stuff. Thanks for the heads up !
_________________
Bob |
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Kevin Milner
From:
Los Angeles, California, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2016 10:52 am
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
| Kevin Milner wrote: |
| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
Lane,
The compressors steel players use while playing have absolutely nothing to do with compressors that are used in the studio. Whole different ballgame. |
That probably used to be true, but it's not anymore. I have the Origin Effects Cali76-CD on my board and use it most of the time with my Milkman Half and Half (use it much less often with the Milkman Mini). It is a clone of one of the most popular studio compressors ever, the 1176. But it also adds a dry blend (which I make heavy use of to help retain some of the attack), and doubles the range of the attack knob. Very beautiful compressor for steel that can go from incredibly subtle to full squash (I do the former). I find that it helps with a solid state power amp to simulate some of the natural compression you get from a tube power amp. Stompbox compressor technology has come a long way since the dynacomp and similar were released. |
Kevin, I do use a compressor in the studio so it might be worth checking out the new stomp box stuff. Thanks for the heads up ! |
You're welcome! And apologies to your wallet, they're expensive 
_________________
GFI S10-P Ultra -> Milkman 40w Pedal Steel Mini or 300w Half & Half (or Sarno SGBB/Nashville 112 or '94 Twin Amp or Homebuilt 5e3)
Effects: Cali76-CD Compressor -> EP booster -> Sarno Earth Drive -> Earthquaker Devices Zap Machine -> Earthquaker Devices Grand Orbiter Phaser -> Caitlinbread Dirty Little Secret Mk III -> Malekko Envelope Filter -> Hilton VP -> Pedal Projects Klone -> Tech 21 Blonde -> Strymon Timeline -> TC Electronics Spark Mini Boost -> Strymon Lex -> Strymon Flint |
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