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Topic: Talk Me Out of Buying a Pedal Steel... |
Randy Schneider
From:
SW New Mexico, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2016 6:56 am |
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Landon,
If you follow the advice given here and get a decent deal on a good guitar to start with, you have very little to lose by giving it a try. If you decide it isn't working, you should be able to get most, if not all, of your money back.
I am a beginner as well (tho much older!!). But those of us that have already played guitar have got a jump start on pedal steel. If you already know the guitar fretboard -- esp. where the E-form and A-form barre chords take you in different keys -- you won't have much trouble 'finding' things on the PSG neck. Just having that knowledge, along with key/chord structure, has helped me a great deal when trying to figure out how something I hear is played.
And in this internet age, there has never been a better time to learn how play an instrument -- any instrument!
I am in the Austin area...feel free to contact me if you need to for any reason.
Last edited by Randy Schneider on 24 Nov 2016 7:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Terry Niendorf
From:
Boise, Idaho
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Posted 24 Nov 2016 7:03 am
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| There were a lot of us who came through the 1960's and 70's who were just mesmerized by the sounds coming from the steel players of Country Music of those days. We were drawn and motivated to try to do all of that, and when we could get even some of it, it was magic, and we were hooked. So it would seem that the more you are motivated from that perspective, the more successful you would be. What is in your narrative is that you are probably a much better guitar player than you suggest. It's good to hear steel players are in demand in Texas. Sadly not so much in many other parts of the country. |
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Larry Chung
From:
San Francisco, CA, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2016 7:38 am
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Make sure to budget for a good (in person, real time) teacher who can help you with the fundamentals (how to hold the bar, pick the strings, blocking, grips, getting good tone, playing in tune, some music theory). Also, a qualified steel mechanic to help keep the machine running well.
As important as the steel itself. You will be glad that you did on both counts.
Enjoy the adventure! (:
LC |
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Eugene Cole
From:
near Washington Grove, MD, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2016 9:10 am
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Landon; You sound like you have given this thought and you are seeking guidance on the right Forum. I think that you should give the PSG a shot. So everything I am going to post here is predicated on that premise.
You say you are a physically-able but mentally-challenged "below average guitar player." So from the outset you know that instrument type is not the barrier to proficiency in playing music. So if you are inclined to play music the next question (pretty much the focus of this post) is which instruments do you want to tackle.
If you want to Tackle Pedal Steel you will need several things including but not limited to:
Money or trade-worthy assets.
Motivation to learn an instrument.
A teacher or teachers you can get to and afford to pay.
An adequate instrument (a poor instrument is demotivational).
An understanding of basic music theory (for PSG this will include chord structures).
You need to know what a PSG's “changer†is. Note: a changer is a mechanical device which changes string tensions so that the strings can be re-tuned as you play.
Skipping over the first 2 items we come to folks to instruct you. This is where I think that many people (myself included) make their first mistake. At the beginning you NEED in-person teachers to instill proper technique and help you over the obstacles you will encounter.
An adequate instrument and help locating one is also a critical puzzle piece. The wrong instrument will hold you back and will limit your ability to realize rapid readjustments when you need to. And just changing the manufacturer or alloy your strings will often mean that the changer may require minor readjustment.
Understanding basic music theory and chord structures is a pretty essential foundation for figuring out how to do things on the PSG. It does not take much time to learn the basics I am thinking of. It comes down to learning some terminology and about musical notations. When you have learned the following musical terms/concepts you will have met the criteria for my definition of a basic understanding of music theory and chord structure. The terms are: Triad, interval, half step, whole step, flat, sharp, root, second, ninth, third, minor third, major fifth, major seventh, minor seventh, fourth, suspended, chromatic, diatonic
_________________
Regards
-- Eugene <sup>at</sup> FJ45.com
PixEnBar.com
Cole-Luthierie.com
FJ45.com
Sierra U14 8+5 my copedent, 1972 MSA D10 8+4, and nothing in the Bank. 8^) |
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Eugene Cole
From:
near Washington Grove, MD, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2016 9:12 am What does basic music theory understanding mean?
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Here is a quick and excessively simplistic introduction to a few of the musical terms and concepts you need to be familiar with to get you ready to learn the PSG:
Chromatic: all 12 notes in an octave. For example: C, D-flat, D, E-flat, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, B-flat, and B are the notes which comprise the chromatic scale.,
Interval: this basically means how many notes are present between the notes which comprise a chord.
Half step: this is the interval between adjacent notes in the chromatic scale. For example; going from C to D-flat is a half step interval. As a guitarist this is the same as going up or down 1 fret.
Whole step: this is the interval which exists when notes are 2 half steps apart. For example; going from C to D and skipping the D-flat not is a whole step. As a guitarist this is the same as going up or down 2 frets.
Diatonic scale: this uses 7 of the 12 notes in an octave based upon a standardized set of intervals in the scale. When people talk about a musical key they are typically just about a diatonic scale. The diatonic scale commonly known as a major scale is from low to high described as having the following intervals: whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step, whole step. In the key of C major the notes would be C, D, E, F, G, A, B, octave-C. In C-major the notes excluded because they are inside the whole-step intervals are D-flat, E-flat, G-flat, A-flat, and B-flat.
Triad: a triad is 3 notes, and is comprised of every other note in the context of a diatonic scale. In the key of C triads are CEG, DFA, EGB, FAC, GBD, ACE, BDF. Note triads are named for the lowest of the 3 notes.
Major-third: this is an interval of 2 whole steps. To a guitarist this is the same as going up or down 4 frets.
Minor-third: this is an interval of 1 and one half steps. To a guitarist this is the same as going up or down 3 frets.
Major-fifth: This is an interval of 3 and one half steps. To a guitarist this is the same as going up or down 7 frets. This is commonly just called a fifth and the word major is dropped.
Suspended: is often notated in chord descriptions as “sus4â€, “sus6â€, or “sus9†and is nothing more than a shorthand for how the chord differs from a basic triad.
Root: The term root is used as a reference to the note for which a key is named or the reference note for a chord name. For example: a C-major chord is a triad where C is the root and is the lowest of the 3 notes and being a major chord the triad contains major-third and a major-fifth, In the key of C-major the note C is the root.
_________________
Regards
-- Eugene <sup>at</sup> FJ45.com
PixEnBar.com
Cole-Luthierie.com
FJ45.com
Sierra U14 8+5 my copedent, 1972 MSA D10 8+4, and nothing in the Bank. 8^) |
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Jim Kennedy
From:
Brentwood California, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2016 10:18 am
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The road to musical success, IMHO, is based on 2 things. Tenacity, which you seem to have. You are out there playing and making a little money at it. That's more than most people ever do. Practice, the only way to get better. Even gifted musicians must practice. It just doesn't "happen." The pedal steel just might be your instrument. Find a good deal and give it a try. But you have to make a true effort. Daily practice for at least a year. You are trying to master a physical skill. Think learning to ride a bike. Get on, pedal, balance, steer, turn, stop, watch out for everything else in your path. No one just goes on their first try. It takes practice. It's the same with pedal steel. If you give it your best shot and don't get it, at least you will not have a case of should coulda woulda.
_________________
ShoBud Pro 1, 75 Tele, 85 Yamaha SA 2000, Fender Cybertwin, |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 24 Nov 2016 10:59 am
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Pedal steel is perhaps the most difficult instrument to go from zero to mediocre. Just a warning. The industry mantra is. ..' it takes two years to suck at it.'
A great transitional instrument between guitar and pedal steel is the dobro. Jam with the bluegrass community for awhile and your musicianship across all instruments and genres will improve noticeable in a short time. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Nov 2016 5:29 am
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" agree with Lane. Get a single 10 with 3 pedals and 4 knee levers.
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I wouldn't get less than 5 knees. Gotta have that vertical! I use 7 knees, There were things I could do on 6-string that were very awkward on steel. But I learned in a very different manner than most. Three lessons and my instructor got me in a band. I had beeb in a Mothers of Invention style band, and Country was quite unkbown to me. The band he got me in was a "Request Band." A couple hundred songs that the singers had on 3X5 cards. I didn;t know any of them! I clearly remember the first song at my first gig with them! Dick said," Sugar Daddy in a JB. Kick it off." I'd never heard it before! Yikes! But that's how I learned. No more lessons, just gigging. Had to develope my own style, which has served me well gigging and in the studio.
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Nov 2016 5:46 am
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| Tom Gorr wrote: |
Pedal steel is perhaps the most difficult instrument to go from zero to mediocre. Just a warning. The industry mantra is. ..' it takes two years to suck at it.'
A great transitional instrument between guitar and pedal steel is the dobro. Jam with the bluegrass community for awhile and your musicianship across all instruments and genres will improve noticeable in a short time. |
In my case it to me 20 years not to suck. However it was a wonderful ride. My best tip is learn to laugh at yourself as you stumble through learning phases, and understand that the learning never stops. In otherwords, you'll be laughing your entire PSG carreer and that ain't a bad thing.
_________________
Jb in Ohio
..................................
GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
.................................. |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 25 Nov 2016 9:25 am
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| John Booth wrote: |
In my case it to me 20 years not to suck. However it was a wonderful ride. My best tip is learn to laugh at yourself as you stumble through learning phases, and understand that the learning never stops. In otherwords, you'll be laughing your entire PSG carreer and that ain't a bad thing. |
John is right, a sense of humor helps - after all, it's supposed to be fun. I expand a bit on that "it takes 2 years to suck" saying - I tell people it took me FOUR years, but I'm finally there! |
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Brett Day
From:
Pickens, SC
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Posted 25 Nov 2016 9:55 am
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| The pedal steel guitar is a wonderful instrument and there are so many great brands of pedal steel guitars to choose from. I started out playing a 1974 Emmons with three pedals and one knee lever. One of my favorite steels is a Jackson BlackJack Custom with three pedals, four knees-it's a great steel guitar for any level, and the sound is similar to a Sho-Bud-they're great guitars for any level |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 25 Nov 2016 10:05 am
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Pedal steel will change the way you think about music, I think. There's no other instrument that has that sound, nothing else will do.
I can't think of any reasons to talk you out of it. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 25 Nov 2016 12:09 pm
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| John Billings wrote: |
" agree with Lane. Get a single 10 with 3 pedals and 4 knee levers.
"
I wouldn't get less than 5 knees. Gotta have that vertical! I use 7 knees, |
I'd normally agree, but the OP stated that the confusion factor was a real fear. Hell, in his case (and for others that fear the confusion), I'd probably urge folding all levers but the E lowers and the 2nd string lower up to the guitar and tightening the screw; bringing them into play as soon as either they see something they want to play requiring them or they feel ready to use them. Not decommissioning them, just stowing them.
As soon as it stops being an impenetrable mystery, pull them out.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Landon Evans
From:
The Republic of Texas
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Posted 25 Nov 2016 1:58 pm
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Wow, thank you all so much for your replies!
I have to say, I have been overwhelmed by all the support I have received from this forum. In addition to the numerous replies to my thread, I've gotten a lot of PMs of people offering specific advice, encouragement, their phone numbers, and their friendship.
To everyone who posted on this thread, I truly do thank you. I carefully read and considered everything that was said. There was a mix of light-hearted entertainment and true wisdom that I'm very appreciative to have found.
It may seem a very knee-jerk reaction, but today I went ahead and purchased a steel guitar that I found on Craigslist (the owner is a member of this forum). I got multiple opinions on the guitar and on the deal I was getting, and even got to talk to the original owner (I bought it from a second-hand dealer). I'm very much looking forward to getting it next week and beginning my PSG journey!
I am also very much looking forward to becoming a regular on this forum and learning from everyone. Thanks again for all your help, and I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving! |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 25 Nov 2016 2:01 pm
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| Landon Evans wrote: |
It may seem a very knee-jerk reaction, but today I went ahead and purchased a steel guitar that I found on Craigslist (the owner is a member of this forum). I got multiple opinions on the guitar and on the deal I was getting, and even got to talk to the original owner (I bought it from a second-hand dealer). |
I would say that hardly sounds like a 'knee-jerk reaction' to me at all. A knee-jerk reaction would be if you asked advice from no one and just grabbed it in the spur of the moment. You got opinions from multiple, experienced players and also the original owner. You did everything right. Enjoy the ride! 
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 25 Nov 2016 3:41 pm
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Tell us about the guitar. What brand is it Is it a single or double neck? How many knee levers does it have?
And please post some pictures.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Landon Evans
From:
The Republic of Texas
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Posted 25 Nov 2016 3:55 pm
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
Tell us about the guitar. What brand is it Is it a single or double neck? How many knee levers does it have?
And please post some pictures. |
Here you go:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=309029
I got it from the person who bought it from that thread. Didn't get it at that price, but not a whole lot more. I'm happy with the deal I got. |
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Michael Yahl
From:
Troy, Texas!
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Posted 25 Nov 2016 4:01 pm
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WOW! Y'all even got me fired up!
I was gonna post and offer a MSA Classic XL For Brandon to use for six months, FREE, but had to pack some orders and get them to the post office and by the time I got back he'd already posted that he bought one.
I would just like to say "Thanks!" to all of you who posted with such encouragement and advice to get another young'un to join the fold.
Just from what I recall I think that there has been about 1 a month join us this year that fall into the under 30 category. I think that's pretty awesome.
Landon, you couldn't have found a more helpful and more knowledgeable bunch of folks than here on the Steel Guitar Forum. This forum and it's members are the ultimate compendium of knowledge.
Never think that any question is too minimal or stupid to ask. Whether is music related or mechanical or whatever, do not be afraid to ask as answers will pour forth in a flood.
If you need names of players to contact in the central Texas region, give me call and I'll try and give you some names to contact.
There are also several organizations in the central Texas area that would welcome you.
A BIG TEXAS SIZED Welcome to you!
_________________
"Don't fergit to kiss yer horse!"
'72 Sho-Bud Professional D10, (in pieces .....), '78 MSA Classic XL D10, '69 Emmons PP, Fender 2000
Peavey Session 500 BW, Crate Digital Modeling Amp
PSG PARTS
http://www.psgparts.com/ |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 25 Nov 2016 4:22 pm
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| Landon Evans wrote: |
| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
Tell us about the guitar. What brand is it Is it a single or double neck? How many knee levers does it have?
And please post some pictures. |
Here you go:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=309029
I got it from the person who bought it from that thread. Didn't get it at that price, but not a whole lot more. I'm happy with the deal I got. |
I think the Marlen has a pull release changer and MSA style cranks. Basically top notch tone and some of the best mechanics ever put on steel guitars. Don't ever think the value of thst guitar is reflected by its price. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Karl Paulsen
From:
Chicago
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Posted 26 Nov 2016 5:59 am
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Congratulations!
I'm a fellow beginner on the Pedal Steel. I don't know much about your particular guitar, but it looks like you made a good solid purchase.
If I may make one suggestion, get a teacher. It ain't cheap, but it's very much worth it. If your barriers are mental, there's nothign better than a teacher to keep you accountable to practicing and excited about it. Ideally you should be able to find someone locally, but if not there are a number of reputable folks who will offer lessons via skype. I've been taking lessons every other week for over a year and I still stink, but I'm definitley making progress. |
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Ted Lowe Jr
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2016 10:29 am Re Learning Pedal Steel
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Congrats on your new pedal steel, I am sure you will enjoy learning and playing it. Just in case you have not read it somewhere else here on the forum, I will throw in some recommendations for learning materials.
First and foremost, get a copy of the Pedal Steel Guitar Book/CD by Winnie Winston, it is pretty much considered to be the BIBLE for Pedal steel Guitar. Lots of great information in that book that will keep you busy for a good while. Also I highly recommend the Bruce Bouton's Learn to Play Pedal Steel Guitar DVD.
He really breaks things down very simply for a beginner and you can watch it over and over again to get the info to sink in. Also Any tape or DVD material by Jeff Newman is highly recommended, and last but not least check out Joe Wright's instructional materials, he has books and DVDs. You can find links to the Jeff Newman and Joe Wright pages on the forum link page and the Winnie Winston book and Bruce Bouton DVD are available on Amazon.
Good luck with it, I think you find that a lot of what you already know on guitar will make it easier to learn pedal steel. |
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 29 Nov 2016 10:56 am
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Landon,
It's a pity you didn't come over to West Texas A&M! I just looked over your facebook page. We share alot of the same interests... and the same age.
Congrats on your new steel! I've gone through four of em now 
Did your sho-bud player graduate or something??
Dave |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2016 6:43 pm
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| Quote: |
| I've just about come to the realization that we're probably never going to go anywhere. Which is totally acceptable seeing as I never expected us to get out of the garage when we started |
Landon - You IMHOP are a prime candidate to play, gulp, thats right, the banjo.
An actual career in music, and you are young enough to possibly start a family? Keep your day job. Get a banjo. Play it on the porch.
Amplifiers & late night tomfoolery? Don't do it.
Diatonic scales? Balderdash.
Now if you are looking to have some serious FUN with a capital F, then by all means, get a steel, plan on devoting alot of time, because it's serious FUN.
IMHOP, Keep it FUN, have fun, & enjoy the ride. A steel with our without pedals is a great way to have FUN! It's a great hobby, there are so many directions to go with it, but IT TAKES TIME.
If you want quick fun, get a banjo.
If you want long term fun, & you like playing music, the STEEL could be for you.
CHEERS!
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Edward Rhea
From:
Medford Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2016 7:40 pm
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SWEET! That's a sharp Marlen...I'm glad you pulled the trigger, psg has been very rewarding and challenging, at least for me.
_________________
“TONESNOB†|
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