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Topic: When you have no lead parts , what do you play |
Greg Lambert
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2016 6:32 pm |
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| Just chords or not play at all. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2016 6:46 pm
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Invent some tasty fills, be creative.
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2016 7:01 pm
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Play around the singer (not on him)
Play between his phrases
Jb
_________________
Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2016 9:10 pm
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| John Booth wrote: |
Play around the singer (not on him)
Play between his phrases
Jb |
What JB says.
You da man, John! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 12:12 am
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It also depends on how many pieces are in the band.
I hit an epiphany while playing with a 5-piece band (Tele, fiddle, steel, bass and drums). I sat back and LISTENED to the band, and every time I was about to lay in a fill or padding chords, I asked myself "am I going to add something, or do Josie and Chuck have this handled?" I spent a lot more time with my hands in my lap listening to a dang good band, and what I actually played mattered more.
Also remember that the padding chords usually ends up filling a sonic space that was already full.. Unless the guitar is laying out, they got this.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 6:17 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
It also depends on how many pieces are in the band.
I hit an epiphany while playing with a 5-piece band (Tele, fiddle, steel, bass and drums). I sat back and LISTENED to the band, and every time I was about to lay in a fill or padding chords, I asked myself "am I going to add something, or do Josie and Chuck have this handled?" I spent a lot more time with my hands in my lap listening to a dang good band, and what I actually played mattered more.
Also remember that the padding chords usually ends up filling a sonic space that was already full.. Unless the guitar is laying out, they got this. |
Yep, and ya still get paid the same at the end of the night 
Jb
_________________
Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 6:47 am
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| For me, it took awhile, but eventually I discovered that what I didn't play could be more important than what I did play. Often times, less is more. |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 8:31 am
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
| For me, it took awhile, but eventually I discovered that what I didn't play could be more important than what I did play. Often times, less is more. |
Or as they say, "Half of what you play is what you don't play"
Jb
_________________
Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 9:25 am
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"Sometimes the best hook is a hole."
Chuck Hayes
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 9:58 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| Also remember that the padding chords usually ends up filling a sonic space that was already full.. Unless the guitar is laying out, they got this. |
I feel that there's nothing wrong with doubling another player's part with a different timbre, or in a different octave. If the guitarist is strumming, steel guitar pads of the same notes can add an orchestral richness to the band's sound. It all depends on the song, of course.
The audience doesn't like to see someone not playing. Sometimes I heel my volume pedal and just look busy.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jim Kennedy
From:
Brentwood California, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 10:01 am
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I love having more players--keyboard 2nd guitar, fiddle, harmonica, horn--It make s evverbody's job easier. You can share solo's, fills, and even rythm parts. The one thing is that everyone needs to know when to lay out and when to step it up. We all know that obnoxious guy that neever really gets it. Always loud and out front. I have always strived to not be that guy. One of the best compliments I have ever been paid is to be asked to play louder. That tells me I am not not loud, obnoxious, and out front all the time. Good luck in getting a handle on what and when to play.
_________________
ShoBud Pro 1, 75 Tele, 85 Yamaha SA 2000, Fender Cybertwin, |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 10:13 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| Lane Gray wrote: |
| Also remember that the padding chords usually ends up filling a sonic space that was already full.. Unless the guitar is laying out, they got this. |
I feel that there's nothing wrong with doubling another player's part with a different timbre, or in a different octave. If the guitarist is strumming, steel guitar pads of the same notes can add an orchestral richness to the band's sound. It all depends on the song, of course.
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Right. Use judgment: there's a line between texture and clutter and it's not always in the same . But I'm not afraid to just sit there.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 10:29 am
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Without question, two of the biggest lessons I've learned:
- If your name isn't on the marquee it's not about you. Repeat: it's not about you.
- Know when to shut up. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 12:51 pm
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I like John and b0b's answers! You have to be careful "laying out", because it can really minimize your importance in the band if you do it too much.
"Why should we keep that guy when he's not playing most of the time, anyway?"
Seems we always complain that the steelplayer is the first to be let go, without thinking...exactly why does that happen? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 1:55 pm
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Sweets Edison kept his Sinatra gig, Donny.
(we're a form of artists. While there is room for Rothko AND Pollock, most successes go somewhere in between)
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 3:04 pm
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Ditto with Lane's first post 
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 4:02 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
Sweets Edison kept his Sinatra gig, Donny.
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Dicto simpliciter, Lane.
Edison was one of the best players of his generation. (Most of those here, including you and I, can't make that claim.)
Sinatra never had a "money problem". (Nor, I suspect, did anyone ever tell him he'd have to trim his band because he wasn't drawing a crowd.)
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 5:54 pm
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More like advocatus diaboli.
And I was less addressing the economics, which we're almost always going to be on the bubble because we're more flavor than meat, than the notion of how much we play has any relation to our impact on the song.
Sweets probably played 8 notes per stanza, but they were probably the coolest notes in that stanza.
And they were worth waiting for.
A few years ago I did a recording session where the singer and engineer were getting impatient waiting for me to add a fill in the verse they said was mine. I told them I had an idea, and waiting for the tail end of bar 9 would set it off. They liked it, but asked me to put something in a different register at about bar 4.
But now I'm talking about what I think is the most important and the funnest part of making music: artistic judgment.
Or was that one of the implicit parts of the question in the OP?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Pat Chong
From:
New Mexico, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 9:44 pm
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I have seen this expression used more than once: What do you mean with "padded chords"?
Thanks................Pat |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 10:00 pm
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The steel doesn't "chop" chords like a mandolin, so it refers to playing chords to establish/enhance rhythm and chords.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 6:09 am
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I want to concur wholeheartedly with Lane. Sometimes laying out is the most appropriate contribution.
Again, it depends on the size of the band. I play with a great band out of Fredericksburg TX that has two lead singers, both of whom play flat-top rhythm guitars, and appropriately. So there's lots of background chordal action happening for the lead players (Telecaster, fiddle, and moi) to play over. Each of us in the lead section know that if we aren't doing fills or solos, laying out is really the correct way contributing. The lead guitarist and fiddler are both excellent players and we gladly and effortlessly all subdue our egos in favor of the total band sound.
About pads: In a small band context, like 4-piece, they may be necessary to fill out the chordal feel, but not always. Realize this... both the steel guitar and the electric guitar occupy the same sonic space, or timbre; even just a whole note pad (or longer) can clutter up the sound. Coming in full bore on the very first note doesn't let the song build up to a crescendo. Holding back on your entry until the first chorus, or even the second verse, can make your presence that much more striking and significant.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 6:53 am
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I would agree, Herb. In the context of a larger band (with, say, 5 or more instruments) the ability to sit idly while others shine is perfectly appropriate. But with smaller groups, such as those with no rock-steady chordal rhythm, the structure seems to sometimes fall apart when someone drops out. Perhaps the music is different in my part of the country, as I've heard very few cases of a steelplayer overplaying. (Usually, I find it's the lead guitar that's guilty of playing lead all the time.) Anyhow, I'd understand this issue a lot better if there were some examples posted (maybe YouTube or recordings) of bands where the steelplayer was stomping all over everyone else, and grossly overplaying. Now surely, with all the music posted online, there should many examples available.
Anyone care to post a few? |
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Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 1:41 pm
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I've found that judicious use of the 4 or 5 bass strings on my extended E 9 takes the steel out of that sonic often space often [over]occupied by the guitar.
For example, sometimes I'll synch low notes with the drummer's right foot. This is also a great exercise in syncopation and maintaining good time.
But I try not to step on the bass drum . . . just add a little tonality.
Chris |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 6:32 pm
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If I find myself in a sonically crowded situation, I find I can go to a lower string (like maybe the eighth) and add a moving cello-like part. The trick is to be sparse with it or you'll find yourself clashing with someone.
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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