| Author |
Topic: U12 Players: M7b5? |
Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 4:53 pm |
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I may have to move this thread, but I'm trying to find ways to obtain a Major 7 Flat 5 chord on a typical E9/B6 Universal (8 + 5).
CM7b5 = C - E - Gb(F#) - B.
(I realize calling it CM7b5 is only one configuration).
I have the fairly standard 3 pedals for E9, and 5 pedals for B6.
Standard 3 knee levers, fourth lowers 5 (B to Bb), fifth (LKV) lowers 3,6 & 10 G# to G.
Neil Flanz's book is great for a LOT of chords, but this one has been eluding me.
One awkward way is with the Es lowered, engage P8 (strings 6 & 10 up a whole step) and P5 (string 7 down a half step).
Minor 7 flat 5, check.
Dominant 7 flat 5, got it.
But this one.....anyone?
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 5:09 pm
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P5+B lowers?
If you raise F# to G, strings 8,7,5,2
If you drop 6 to F#; that lever, B pedal strings 8,6,5,2
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 5:41 pm
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Yes, I just found that I can get a CM7b5 at the 1st fret, strings 4,5,7,8,9. Lower Es, P5 + knee lever (lowering only my 5th string), Lane (curious as to how you computed this....).
I don't have an F# half step raise or whole step lower.
Thanks for the reply - I assume there must be more ways.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 6:09 pm
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I'm a thousand miles away from my guitar.
I just set my mind to "where can I find a major third,, a major 2nd, and a perfect 4th?"
If you are willing to trust the root to be implicit, there are plenty of options. Flatted Es add a A pedal
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 6:31 pm
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Yep, my buddy who's walking me through understanding jazz structure, etc. regularly reminds me the root is frequently implied, or handled by the bass, of which I'm aware.
Thing is, I love full chords (4 plus notes) and they tend to include the root. What's critical is to avoid notes that aren't appropriate. As he's noticed, and probably all pedal steel guitarist know, the instrument is very triad based; it's those BIG chords that catch my ear, though!
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 8:52 pm
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E9 side of things, open strings, low to high
D (with lever)
F#
Ab
C# (a pedal)
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Bob |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 10:01 pm
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Open Strings, low to high
11th string
E
G#
Bb (B string lowered)
or use your 6th pedal raising your 6th string to A#
D# (E strings lowered)
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Bob |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 16 Nov 2016 2:27 am Re: U12 Players: M7b5?
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| Daniel Morris wrote: |
| One awkward way is with the Es lowered, engage P8 (strings 6 & 10 up a whole step) and P5 (string 7 down a half step). |
That is actually the obvious way, although that 6&10 raise most folk don't bother with any more, so congratulations on owning it! It originally lived in the P4 position where it was not awkward at all, but however things are arranged you'll end up using both feet at some point.
In its absence, raise 6 with P7 and settle for just strings 9,8,7,6. (This is commonly used for a 13add9 two frets down.)
If your fourth lever could lower both 5 & 9 a half step (which some do) you would find a full chord with the Es lowered on strings 11 - 5.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2016 4:29 am
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Thanks, Bob & Ian.
Yes, I really love that 6/10 whole step raise.
Playing the root right against the M7 has long been a sound I love.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2016 11:11 am
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The easiest way is in B6, 8th fret, lower string 5 1/2 step, strings 11,8,6,5
Spelled - root,7,3,b5
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Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Mike Selecky
From:
BrookPark, Ohio
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Posted 19 Nov 2016 11:19 am
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Here's a couple of nice voicings with the lever that lowers the 4 and 8 strings not engaged. My P4 is the P8 pedal on standard C6th.
| Tab: |
B6th
1 ___________________________________________
2 ______8_____b______________________________
3 ___________________________________________
4 ______8_____c______________________________
5 ______8(L)__f#_____________8(L)__f#________
6 ______8_____e______________8_____e_________
7 ___________________________________________
8 ___________________________8_____c_________
9 ___________________________________________
10 __________________________________________
11___________________________8(4)__b_________
12___________________________________________
"e" lowers not engaged
5th string lowered 1/2 step
P4 or P8 lowers 11th string 1/2 step
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