Need advice on U12 copedant

Douglas Krause · From: Colorado, USA

I'm trying to set up a universal 12 string with the Day set up and the CBA pedals moved over to add a "0" pedal. I have seven pedals and five knee levers. Any suggestions? It is a 70's era MSA that has double raise, double lower, but I'm not opposed to experimenting with barrels behind a couple of bell crank pulls. Thanks.
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Sho Bud 6139, Sho Bud LDG, Sho Bud Professional
Rickenbacher B6, Gibson and Supro Laps
Liberty Dobro

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Only 3 of the traditional C6th pedals?
My advice is to rethink the idea. Unless you're going to add clustered knees so you can put the traditional P5 on a knee (which eliminates the need to double-foot the P5/P7 combination), in which case you can put pedals 6, 7,and 8 on the floor.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I differ from Lane (amicably) in that I prefer to put P6 on a lever and have 5&7 under one foot. This means that in "E9 mode" I can lower the 8th string an extra step.

The Day setup is easily better for a universal, as the C pedal is parked out of the way and the A pedal can get involved in the B6 side of things. For instance, I don't have anywhere to put a 5th string semitone raise (equivalent to 3rd string C to C# on C6), but the A pedal with the vertical does the job.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Douglas Krause · From: Colorado, USA

I feel I need the CBA pedals to be one position to the right. Looking at Larry Bells page, I was thinking of making P567 the same as P578 putting 5 and 7 next to each other. I don't want to double foot. Would the string 6 and 10 raise to A# work on the far left? Larry doesn't even have that on his Emmons steel. Traditional P6 would go on a knee. It's dealing with the Day set up and moving to the left that has me in a quandary.
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Sho Bud 6139, Sho Bud LDG, Sho Bud Professional
Rickenbacher B6, Gibson and Supro Laps
Liberty Dobro

Douglas Krause · From: Colorado, USA

Ian, I see you responded while I was writing back to Lane. Thanks. Yeah, I don't want have to take my foot off the volume pedal. The A pedal comment makes great sense.
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Sho Bud 6139, Sho Bud LDG, Sho Bud Professional
Rickenbacher B6, Gibson and Supro Laps
Liberty Dobro

Wayne Ledbetter · From: Arkansas, USA

I wish some one would in plain English...lol, explain the U12 thing. I guess I can Google the forum but when someone is new to U12 , the language can kind be over their head. Like why is a Day setup better for U12. I have seen the thing where it's B6/E9. I was investigating it and kind of perplexed.
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Sho Bud Super Pro, Fender Twin Reissue, Martin HD-28, Gibson J-45, Gibson RB-250,Stelling Bellflower,Regal Dobro, Takamine and Alvarez Classical, Fender Telecaster, Peavey Studio Pro 112. Mainly played Gospel and some bluegrass.

Wayne Ledbetter · From: Arkansas, USA

I did a little research on the forum. Guess I need to study it more.
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Sho Bud Super Pro, Fender Twin Reissue, Martin HD-28, Gibson J-45, Gibson RB-250,Stelling Bellflower,Regal Dobro, Takamine and Alvarez Classical, Fender Telecaster, Peavey Studio Pro 112. Mainly played Gospel and some bluegrass.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Douglas and Wayne,
My suggestion would be to look again at my website
http://www.larrybell.org
(which I'm currently completely overhauling)

There is a section on how to derive the E9/B6 tuning starting with C6. You move C6 down a half tone to B6 and those are your open strings from the bottom up. Then you figure out how E9 goes on top.
Let me know if you have specific questions.

The setup on my 6x6 Emmons guitar is a good place to start. Read my explanation of how to use a separate knee lever lowering E to D on 8 to replace C6 Pedal 6 AND to conveniently give you the D usually found on string 9 of a 10 string E9.

Also, you mentioned the full step raise on 6 and 10 (usually Pedal 4 on standard C6). That's the one most players (including me) ditched years ago. If you're gonna lose a C6 pedal that's arguably the one to lose. What I have on that 6x6 pretty much duplicates the C6 tuning, without that 4th pedal. The B to Bb lever gives you the standard (C to B) knee lever on C6 and the pedal changes can go all on pedals or you can put one or more on knees. You just have to decide on something you can go with, put it on your guitar, and just play it as much as you can.

Welcome to the universal tuning. It's great fun.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12

Wayne Ledbetter · From: Arkansas, USA

Thank you Mr. Bell for information and comment.
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Sho Bud Super Pro, Fender Twin Reissue, Martin HD-28, Gibson J-45, Gibson RB-250,Stelling Bellflower,Regal Dobro, Takamine and Alvarez Classical, Fender Telecaster, Peavey Studio Pro 112. Mainly played Gospel and some bluegrass.

Douglas Krause · From: Colorado, USA

Thanks, Larry. I've been all over your site and it has been very helpful. What you have on "The Beast" looks like what I'll base mine on.
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Sho Bud 6139, Sho Bud LDG, Sho Bud Professional
Rickenbacher B6, Gibson and Supro Laps
Liberty Dobro

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

You are welcome, guys
That basic setup has served me well for 40 years
The Beast has been my go to guitar for almost 20 of those years

Don't hesitate to ask questions

I'm grateful to Reece Anderson for planting the seed when we played a show together in the mid 70s, and later influences like Joe Wright, Bill Stafford, Eddie Long, Jeff Newman, and others who proved that the E9/B6 approach could work well for a pro player.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12

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