E9th C pedal on a knee lever?

Henry Brooks · From: Los Gatos, California, USA

Anyone ever put the standard "C" pedal on a knee lever, raise string 4 E to F# & string 5 B to C#? How well did it work?
Henry

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

Henry: I just put the E to F# on on my E to F lever & use it in conjunction with the A&B pedals to get the C pedal sound when needed. I have had it like that for quite a few years. Its really all in what you give yourself time to get used to, at least it was for me. I use 6 pedals & 5 knee levers for my 10 string E9th/B6 tuning, so I could use that 3rd pedal for doing what pedal 5 on the C6th, or in my case the B6th tuning. All in what you can get used to.

Ernie Pollock

Dick Wood · From: Springtown Texas, USA

Yes it can be done. Is it a good thing,no because there are some nice fast licks that a knee lever just can't get versus a foot pedal.

I say leave it alone and use the knee lever for a pull that doesn't require a fast motion.
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Jeff Harbour · From: Western Ohio, USA

You've got a pro and a con answer so far... I say try it, that's the only way to know if it works for you. Maybe you will miss the fast BC licks, maybe not.

I personally got rid of my C Pedal change altogether... but that's for another thread. I just never liked that it is a useless pedal by itself.

Charley Bond · From: Inola, OK, USA

I'm in the process of putting Es to F# on my knee lever, but then I have a fast knee lever, that I designed. Hope it comes out OK. I had it that way several years back before I quit.

manny escobar · From: portsmouth,r.i. usa

In the early eighties the late Ralph Paulin said he put the C pedal on a knee (LKR) so he could rock off the A pedal and get an easy B&C pedal combination. I made the change. In later years Ralph said he changed it back. I kept it and use it all the time. I tend to over use it like an idiot, but I really like being able to get the E to F# with ONE foot on the A&B pedals.

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

I thought about getting rid of the pedals all together on S10 E9, and have all on knee levers, I believe it would allow for a different,and more modern design of a steel guitar, new country pop, and some other music genres don't really require all those pedals and changes anyway...
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Jeff Harbour · From: Western Ohio, USA

Sonny Jenkins · From: Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx

In another thread Ernie Pollack states that he has put 2 knee levers on his lap steel,,,I've PM'ed him about it but so far no response. I'm wondering what changes the levers were addressing?

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

How about putting that change on a vertical lever?

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

I also eliminated the C pedal from my coped and have had the E to F sharp on Rkl for nearly 20 years. .. I love that change. .. mostly the smooth major to relative minor use but I do use it for a quick lick as long as it is a simple one.

I love P7 on C6... so my main issue with the C pedal was I couldn't double foot it. If I wanted fast licks with the full c pedal change would rig it up with P7 assuming it wouldn't get stupidly hard to push.

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

I would never lose the C pedal, it has uses all by itself, and for licky things, you can't beat the speed of a pedal vs lever.

I do have string 4 whole tone raise on my LKL-Front, and find many uses for it, but mostly for slower chord-changing things. It it was good enough for Tom Brumley, it's good enough for me! Smile

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Tony Dingus · From: Kingsport, Tennessee, USA

I like it on a pedal but wouldn't mind having it both on a pedal and a knee.

Tony

Robbie Daniels · From: Casper, Wyoming, USA

I have been using that pull E to F# on my LR knee since 1965 and prefer it much more but every steel player has their own preference and that is the beauty of pedal steel guitar.
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Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

It's a style thing
If you have uptempo B+C pedal licks in your arsenal and don't want to compromise, keep the C pedal.
If you don't use the B+C changes much, putting E to F# on a lever is not a problem.

There ARE licks using B+C that can't easily be played at tempo if you get the E to F# on a lever.
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Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I'm giving some consideration to putting the E to F# change on a left knee forward lever.
What say you?

Al Miller · From: Waxahachie Texas

Terry wendt of Nashville has that pedal on his up lever and uses the fire out of it
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Steve Hinson · From: Hendersonville Tn USA

Ray Noren had knee levers before he had pedals,IIRC...I believe they were installed by Zane Beck.

Bruce Derr · From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA

LKV is a good place for E to F# in my opinion. I've been doing that for decades. It doesn't replace a C pedal (which I also have) but it's nice.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

It doesn't actually matter where we physically place pulls or lowers, what maters is if it is comfortable for US in our standard style of playing. It's still an E9th tuning with the standard changes, whats not standard is the physical placement of the pulls.

IF we have to WORK harder or use excessive thought, energy and motion then the pulls are in the wrong place.

Someone asked about "flow" in another thread. If we make ONE mechanical change to make ONE thing appear better, we had better be sure that the NEXT phrase or " movement" is not disrupted.

regarding LKV, I now have 6 lower on that lever, I never used 5 lower and have always used alternative positions for those 5 lower related phrases. Works for me, perhaps not for someone else.
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Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

I have E>F>F# on the regular E raise lever (both E strings) on my converted Dekley S10, so although I have kept the regular C-pedal I don't use it much.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Donny,
I don't do a lot of fast stuff.
I already use the ABE(lower the E's) combination to make a 9th chord and an ABF(raise the E's) combination to make an augmented chord so I thought it wouldn't be a big deal to make an ABF# combination.
I got a sketch from Jim Palenscar on how he does it, bless his heart. Very Happy

Charley Bond · From: Inola, OK, USA

If I raise the the 4th string to F#, while engaging the A-B pedals, that should get the job done.

Now, what to do with the C pedal, plus I have another pedal to add. I was hoping to add the Franklin Pedal, but haven't ever used one yet.

Got any Ideas..

Here is my Quick Acting Knee Lever, it moves about 1/2 inch vertically

John Russell · From: Austin, Texas

I've used that change for 40 years. I converted my C pedal to raise B to C# and G# to Bb. It makes a 2 dom. 7 chord and is a standard on E9/Bb universal setups (I play the S12U.) I raise #4 E to F# with RKL and it has lots of uses especially when you need the sound of A+B+C pedals (often for me). The standard C pedal is redundant pulling B to C# which you do on the A pedal. That's my opinion, hundreds of steel players will disagree and lots of them sound great doing the standard way. I'm just sayin'.

BTW, Damir, if you got rid of the pedals altogether and just had knee levers, you'd no longer have a pedal steel, you'd have a lever steel. ;~)

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