Learning the neck

Larry Venberg · From: Minnesota, USA

Hi all,
I am a beginner players and am working on chords and where they are. I have a great chord dictionary and have discoverd that any major chord can be turned into a minor by going three frets up and just ad the "A" pedal while utilizing the same strings. I don't see a pattern yet for 7th chords. (Maybe I am thinking too deep for a beginner). Any tips on finding things the easy way for now would be appreciated. (E9 set up) with 5 knee and 3 pedals.

Thank you all for any tricks!

Larry

Ben Waligoske · From: Denver, CO

Hi Larry, I'm no expert but just a quick answer to give you something to chew on - for a 7th chord there's a couple easy ways to work it that'll help open up the fretboard...

1) Move 3 frets up from the Major triad chord in question, but engage your E raise lever (usually LKL on Emmons copedents). So, if you're at an A major on Fret 5, move to fret 8 and engage just your E half step raises, and in the standard grips, you'll have an A7. Move another 2 frets up (open/no pedals) and you'll be at the 4 chord of the key you're in, in this case a D major, which is a handy thing.

2) Again in the use case of the key of A, you could stay on Fret 5 but use the 2nd string with a half step lower to find an A7... Usually this is RKR (half step feel stop) on a lot of Emmons copedents.

Just a couple quick things to chew on. You can also move 2 frets back from open position and engage your A pedal to get a form of a 7th chord, and while not as fully voiced, this is still handy!

Keep at it - and check out this chord chart that forum member Patricia Warnock cooked up awhile ago which is a great resource for new steelers!

John Gould · From: Houston, TX Now in Cleveland TX

Well the easiest way is add the 9th string with no pedals ,or if you have a drop on your second string down a 1/2 tone. With AB pedals down if you have a raise on your 1st string 1/2 tone that gives you the 7th . So your adding a D to a E chord with no pedals and a G to the A chord with A/B pedals down . There are several other places and ways to get 7th's but those are the easy ones .
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

To me, the best seventh chords are the A pedal down 2 frets from the no pedal position and the seventh found three frets up using the "F" pedal. The 2 down poition is a mellow seventh, while thr F pedal three frets up adds more tension. And I'm a big fan of the ninth string. Use it or the 7th a lot.
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John Gould · From: Houston, TX Now in Cleveland TX

Richard brought up some good points . Sometimes it's about where the b7 note shows up in the chord. When I'm trying to get more of the traditional country sounding move from a 7th chord back to another chord like the 1 chord of the key I tend to use the B pedal with the lever that drops your E's
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Dave Dube · Posted 2 Aug 2016 8:57 pm

HERE is an 11-page fretboard reference that was made by forum member Jesse Leite (PDF). This should help.

Pat Chong · From: New Mexico, USA

I second that. Jesse leite wrote out a good starters list of available chords, not too overwhelming. Go for it! His listing showed how (in a given key) most related chords are available on the same fret and nearby, too. He shows 2 zones to learn: "no pedal" and "A+B" zones. One can add the "A+F" zone, too, as it would overlap the 2 zones. His pages would give one PLENTY to learn. Full speed ahead!

...........Pat

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

That reference is as thorough as it gets. Using it as a guide in conjunction with the idea to learn scales or riffs in at least 3 positions should get a newbie well on their way.

Jamie Howze · From: Boise, ID

There is a ton of useful information in this thread, but I will rephrase a particular bit of it in a way that I hope will be immediately helpful.

Since you have internalized the 3 frets up minor position for a chord, this should be simple to learn.

From the three frets up minor position add the lever that raises your E strings to F (often found on LKL).
This changes the minor chord to its major form. Keeping the lever activated, release the A pedal and it will change the major to its 7th form. The beauty of these combinations is that you have a major, minor and 7th of the same chord at the same fret.

For example:
E open strings.
Em 3rd fret A pedal
E 3rd fret A pedal + F lever
E7 3rd fret F lever.

The only caveat is that the A+F combination can be a bit dicey to intonate correctly.

As I said before, this is a thread that bears a lot of information. Thanks everyone!

Pat Chong · From: New Mexico, USA

To throw more ingredients into Jamie's 3rd fret pot, using the A+F combo, you get a G#m (3m) by half pedaling "A". (And 2m 2 frets back.) If you have a pedal or lever that raises the Es (only) to F#, pressing it changes your G#m to B7th.

Half pedaling takes getting used to, but comes in handy. It is yet one more way to get the same chord someplace else/another chord in the same place..........

.............Pat

richard burton · From: Britain

Here's a nice way to go from a major to a seventh, in the key of C, say:

Lower the second string a whole tone with your knee lever, and raise the sixth string a semitone with the B pedal.

Play strings 2 and 6 at the 3rd fret, then, while they are still ringing, slide back to the 2nd fret, at the same time releasing the knee lever, but keeping the B pedal pressed.

Now slide back to the first fret, keeping the B pedal pressed.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

When it comes to â€œlearning the neck", I think there is a limit to the rate at which it is possible to absorb all the information. The first stringed instrument I learned was the bass, which is a 2-dimensional array of 48 notes. I donâ€™t know how many years it took me to know where every note was without having to think, but the pedal steel has 10 or 12 strings, and what with all the pulls is a 3-dimensional matrix which is harder to visualise.

I have been playing pedal steel for a few years now and itâ€™s like watering a plant â€“ you have to let it soak in and not drown it. I have two ways of navigating.

#1 is to know the same chord at various frets, so that (e.g.) C is at the 8th; or with the A&B pedals down at the 3rd; or with A/F at the 11th; and with Es lowered at the 1st or 13th. In each of these positions you can play a few notes of the scale with the pedals and levers, and if you keep going over them eventually they begin to stick.

#2 is to know all the chords associated with a particular fret, like a bunch of related people living in the same house. So at (say) the 8th fret we have C; F with pedals down; A with A/F; and G with Es lowered. Playing over the scale fragments associated with each chord overlays and reinforces #1.

Donâ€™t know if any of this helps, but it might give you hope amongst the deluge of data! When I know every note on the instrument I'll update you, but don't hold your breathe - I'm already 65 Smile

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Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

In my studies and teaching, I'm a fan of the "package deal"- knowing where chords/scales are on the instrument AND training the ear to hear them as they occur in songs we want to play, since that's what we actually doâ€¦ play along with chord progressions. While chord charts with everything laid out in a linear manner, or with all the available chords at a given fret, are somewhat helpful, I think the fastest path is to learn the sounds of chords in a progression, and internalize where they are on your guitar. So I suggest to students that they make a solid effort to memorize the pockets for I-IV-V chord patterns, add the sound and position of the ivm, ii and iim and then start to fill in the blanks.

One of the most useful "blanks" is indeed the seventh/9th/13th chord, as it's always an appropriate connector between any i and IV or V and I, as well as being a vital "stand alone" chord for blues, rock, jazz, Americana, popâ€¦

Looks like all the best positions for 7th chords are already touched on here, but what I'm suggesting is learning/ practicing them as movementâ€¦ G-G7-C for example as "no pedals" at third fret, same with thumb on 9th string for 7th with 7 on the bottom moving to C with Pedals down 3rd fret. Pedals down 10th fret G, back two frets with E to Eb lever, then just lever and B pedal, resolving to C no pedals at 8th fret. (Endless variations here with chromatic movement, different choices when the pedals are changed, etc.) No pedals 3rd fret moved up three frets with A pedal and E-F lever, letting off the A pedal for the 7th there, resolving to no pedals C at 8th. and so on. Internalizing the 7th chords in progressions makes it much easier to find them instantly for "stand-alone" functions.

As you move along, you can use the same progressions to work through augmented and diminished chords as they have much of the same harmonic function- i.e.; I- I+-IV, I-I#dim.-IV.
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